After being fed up with a run of bad luck, a pokerstars player sent an email complaining about online poker being rigged. He was sent a personal reply explaining logical reasons why online poker is not rigged.
I have taken the liberty of reviewing your previous correspondence with our staff, so I understand that we have already discussed this matter on numerous occasions. Normally we would just close your emails on this subject without reply, but I would like to try and explain something to you. I hope you will therefore read the following and understand why it is impossible for us to run a rigged site.
All the commonly held ‘rigged’ theories are certainly possible, and make for a very interesting and advanced conspiracy theory, but they all suffer from the same problem - a fundamental logical flaw. This is because, unlike all other conspiracies, the evidence needed to prove them is freely available - let me explain:
The value of you proving this conspiracy theory is huge. There was one instance, in the early days of online poker, where the top site at the time had a shuffle algorithm that was not random - It was cracked by Cigital, one of the companies we commissioned to review our RNG and procedures. The site fixed the problem, but they never truly recovered and are now not even one of the top 20 sites. Everyone who has followed in their footsteps learned a valuable lesson indeed.
If you proved the PokerStars shuffle was not random it would be worth at least tens of millions of pounds (the value that another site would likely pay to eliminate us as a competitor), and to us it is worth more since you would have the evidence to end the company and the careers of everyone working here.
All you would need is a sufficient sample of hands and you could easily statistically prove the shuffle was not random. Given the amount you play you almost certainly have a sufficient sample yourself. You can even use PokerStat or PokerTracker to do the analysis for you.
Now we do freely give out complete hand history records to any player who asks for them, so we are in effect willing to give out the information you need to prove these conspiracies and destroy this company. To put that in poker terms, if we are involved in a conspiracy, then we are making the biggest bluff you have ever seen, since we are gambling hundreds of millions on the fact you wouldn’t do anything with the histories we would happily give you. In fact we even programmed the PokerStars client to store your hands to your hard drive if you want, so there can be no possibility of us fixing the histories either.
If it is a bluff, then it can’t be a smart decision from any perspective can it?.
So I ask you this. We have some exceptional poker players in this company, but do you think we make this bluff every day, or are we holding the absolute nuts as we *know* you would only be able to prove the shuffle is fair?
What I have given above is also the most basic form of this argument. I haven’t even detailed the fact that my colleagues and I have access to all the hands ever played on the site and could obtain a huge sample of hands within minutes. We have the same potential payoff to proving a conspiracy as you do.
In summary, the conspiracy theories are believable because you want to believe that the bad beats you suffer have a reason behind them. It’s easier to accept that than the fact that in a random game anything can happen. It’s also much easier to accept than the reality that if you play perfect poker all your beats will, by definition, be bad beats - which is a sobering truth.
So - a final question - you are happy to make these accusations via email, but do you want your entire hand history collection to finally prove we are cheating you and make your millions?
Regards,
Philip A
PokerStars Support Team
Ok fair enough I hear your points, but please step back and look at it from this perspective…..
You say online poker rooms would not risk rigging there cards etc… fair enough I agree with that, however….
Below are many things of why they WOULD rig the cards…
1. Higher stacks winning in tournaments = more players getting busted… which in turn means them players will then buy-in to another tourney and thus giving the poker room more fee’s.
2. More split pots in cash games = more rake for the poker rooms, but no players leaving.
3. Poker Rooms make so much money, whats to say that they dont pay off independent review companies to say their RNG isnt rigged…
4. More money in players accounts = potentially more money for the poker rooms, which means the cash out curse could potentially exist.
I do think online poker rooms are rigged, I have played many cash games and tournaments on many poker rooms, and I can almost second guess now who is going to win a hand, what players have got… etc…
For example I had pocket 99 on a tournament on another poker room today and I typed in the chat box, who has got JJ, and the player who was on BB shows JJ after it folds around to him.
Another example, was when I had AK suited first to act I asked in the chat box who has got KK and someone showed KK….
Then I predicted that the chip leader would win a hand all in against two other players One had AK, one had A-10 and chip leader has K-10…. K 10 won of course….
shark_bait
shark_bait, you’re a retard.
The reason you think poker is rigged is the same reason you completely failed to understand the whole point of the letter.
The crap you’re listing is also due to something called the “isolation effect”, it’s an error in thinking. So, essentially the reason you think all that shit you spewed out matters is because you can’t think correctly.
You said that if it was to be proven that sites like full tilt poker and pokerstars would be paying millions and millions if it was to be proven that their sites are rigged and subsequently are fraudelent and hence criminal.
Well if I were to go to settle down my Company HQ in a Banana Republic where the President and Parliament become my best friends because I add up for a majority stake of that particular Countries Economy and have enough to bribe the top leaders, then I guess it will be hard to bring Justice over these sites.
So why should they care, even if they are stealing? Most of the Websites know that this is a short term big gain Business, because after some time there will be so much competition that the gains will not be sustainable. Greed is what drives them !
I have played on most of these sites and if anyone tells me that they are not rigged or very odd in the give out of cards then the person is insulting my intelligence bigtime ! The other blogs that are favoring the websites are simply employees of those sites and not a customer. Maybe they even play much on these sites themselves. I have mostly won in the Casino playing poker, but never won Online. Not because some donkey forced me to bet in most of my chips, but rather very rare cards, when calculating would come up with little chances: those cards would come up the most. The funny thing is on bad beats you can make out that the river comes up with a frozen delay. Its like someone is sitting on a Computer that controls the cards and is trained to bring up the right card for you to lose. Or maybe the Program is configured in a way to make you lose. But it is very obvious. And the problem in todays world is that most Polticians and MNCs are going deeper and deeper in doing whatever they want and surpress the normal people. It is the normal peoples fault to say they are too weak to do something against them. All Idiots: You have more Power then anyone, especially with the Internet !
Yes online poker is rigged I’m so tired of the debate and the sites asking for someone to prove it
even the best theives get caught eventually just remember these Poker sites are stealing from honest people who put there trust in these sites to be fair
lets face it if you were to play poker with normal hands that are dealt out when playing real poker people would not spend as much time on your sites playing because poker is a game of patience and would be boring to most players to sit and wait for a good hand to be played
they would just lose intrest in the game so these sites make every hand action packed to make even the worse player think he has a shot at winning
when watching poker on tv do you no how much editing goes into just showing the hands that are worth to see a 3 day tourney we get a good half hour of tv with average hands as for online every hand is a movie in its self
Wow, everyone seems to be extremely anti-poker site. The real genius above that pointed out he could call other people’s hands wrote down the only two examples he’s probably ever seen. Nice job bud. The fact is very simple, poker sites make huge money and they can do it honestly. If they were cheating and happened to see a technician retire, don’t you think it’d be a little bit risky? The simple truth is that online your bound to see bad beats, it’s due to the high volume of hands and players. In a casino you can play about 20-40 hands an hour depending on size of the table and amount of players. Online, the number soars to 120+ hands an hour. Your bound to see more than a bad beat every 30 hands so that’s why the complaints will never stop coming in. I don’t think online poker is rigged, and if I’m wrong, it’s still been a profitable mistake for me :).
This is a truth that online poker is rigged. or may be not completely rigged. and who is rigging it capitalism not only in online poker but also in every part of your life. Example invasion of Iraq 11 sept bla bla bla if you open your eyes you will see many in your country as well. SIMPLE IS THAT WHO HAS THE MORE MONEY HAS THE MORE SHIT TO PROVE.
Answer to being a profitable mistake -> ofcourse it is a profitable mistake that will be cashed out some years after but at the time the same people are collecting some money and same will be against it say about 10 years after. Can you risk to hire a 20000$ per hour lawyer who has this shitty experience of flipping the justice to prove this profitable mistake . You dont. so be in your pants and play only limited online poker that will only entertain you.
For me it is another entertainment industry and free plays are my best play. At least i loose $500 a year not more.
My suggestion: Control your gambling habbits instead of blaming these sites. This is the same shit as pinball machines or lucky seven machines so you are making them grow you should be punished. try only free rolls if you wanna play poker arent they fair enough.
or make your own site earn money survival for the fitest.
These games are so rigged its laughable…these vailed claims of fairplay,pokerstars and full tilt poker are run by the same people
I really feel as if poker stars are punishing me….
Last night, i had pocket kings in the hole, where as player b, had little slick. The flop came K K A, now i know a thing or two about odds, and my four of a kind Kings could only be beaten either by a miracle royal flush, or miracle quad aces. So, confident with my 96%+ chance of winning the hand, bet a small amount and got raised, so i reraised, and got reraised on top of that, the only thing i could do was call all in. So, as a selfish poker player, wanting all the chips for myself, i called.
Showdown!
As soon as the cards were face up, the first thing player B said was “NH”. Obviously he knew his poker odds, and the chances of him drawing runner runner was very slim. i think its under 1% chance. Anyway, it’s down to the final two cards, the turn…. an Ace, now as soon as the ace came down i said, don’t you f*****g dare! The river…. you guessed it, another Ace.
Now i know bad beats are a part of poker, but comon, there has to be a line…. and let me tell you, they crossed it, hell they didnt just cross it, they are so far over that line they are in a different time zone. I have never seen or suffered a bad beat like that in all my poker experience. The odds of that happenning are so bad i cant even count that high.
Now for my own opinion…. I believe online poker rooms arnt rigged as bad as people say, although i do agree that they are rigged to provide players with artificial luck to increase the rake and therefore increasing the total profits of the site.
After this bad beat, it has shook me up a bit…i don’t suffer from tilt, so that is not a problem, its just i feel as if i cant trust an online poker site anymore, and i will now only play for play chips online, and keep my money for the casino tournaments where i can see if the cards are being shuffled.
So my advice to anyone who feels they are being cheated on online poker is to leave the site, cash out any remaining funds and only play for fun :)
Happy gambling :D
I agree 100% OLI.
I have read all the above, and my theory is that they could very well be fixed as a friend of mine commented that you always win when you start playing on these sites but after a few days your luck changes and inevitebly lose.
My opinion is this is to get you hooked to start with and that you can win then no matter what you do you will lose. It also might entice some gamblers into trying their hand at some of the casino games that are available on these sites which you also win to start with and inevitebly lose
Its the same old merrygoround with me, you make a deposit, you win for 3 to 6 days but come the next week if you still want to play you will have make a deposit.
The poker is still however not bad value entertaiment, because the time i have spent online I would probably have lost a lot more in any other gambling activities and the freerolls can keep you entertained if you are broke.
Some sites appear worse than others. Avoid online Casino games at all costs - Have burnt myfingers several times playing Blackjack - they let you win for an hour, but then never to get never again (constant dealer badbeats). Online poker is definitely safer if you can control your deposits and stakes and notget addicted. My aim is to play sattellites into live tournaments, which is where the real randomn card deals occur.
well, i’ve read about everyone’s comments on online poker “rigging”….Trueth of the matter is, yes it could be setup/rigged, where u hold the nuts of all nuts by the turn and somehow those quads, or that bigger boat, or whatever just happens to come, and then the rig factor/conspricay theories….Can anyone prove, that it is/isn’t, yes there are bad beats, there action flops, but can u prove without a doubt that these online poker rooms are setting up cards and flops, for an extra penny….
I really do understand everyone’s point/concern, because no one likes to, throw hard earned money away, but that’s what some ppl do, they play because they want to win, and refuse to let a ugly 92 suited go, or a6 off, for the simple fact it’s there money, and there just stupid and happen to luck out, Bottom line online is online, in real life would half of the fish online really play the way they play, hell no, cuz they would be broke… gl 2 u all if u keep putting ur money in online poker…
I love being beat by the 1 or 2 outers, everytime, not 2 or 3 times a day, 5 or 6, it’s something to do with the algorythms in the cards that by the river, as many hands have to be completed, i don’t know if that makes sense and it’s very brief, but a friend told me he has a friend who works for some poker site, and no it’s not a friend of a friend lie story, anyway i’m goin to bed,
and not playing online anymore
I cashed out $4800 from pokerstars, i don’t know what part them giving me that has in their grand scheme of things, but when you finally amass the skills to win a large tourney, no longer will you think a site is rigged, trust me.
I’d like to tell you my story.
I’ve been playing casino (bricks and mortar) poker for a number of years now. After months of getting creamed and losing all of my money, i wised up and gradually became a better player to the point where, more often than not, i come home a winner. I’m not saying that i’m the next Johnny Chan but i know i’m a pretty good player.
About 6 months ago, I decided to give online poker a try so I did a little research and signed up with Party Poker. Now, the two things that realy hit me were a. how bad the low limit players were and b. how juicy my pocket cards were. Surely, for any poker enthusiast, this has got to be heaven. After about 2 hours of playing, my $40 had grown to nearly $200 and this, on the 0.50/$1.
Then it happened.
Or rather it didn’t.
For the next week or so I barely got a playable hand. When I did, i’d miss the flop big time. I’ve had dry runs before so at first i wasn’t too alarmed. However, come the end of the week, I had to reload. I figured that I should deposit a bit more and so I put a couple of hundred more on. Normal service resumed. The cards were back and before long, I’d made up my deficit and then some.
Then it happened again.
Another extended dry spell which this time took about a month until I had to reload again.
After about the sixth time, I began to see and expect the same pattern. I wasn’t disappointed. Sensing something dodgy, I decided to move to another site.
Enter Pacific Poker.
Now this one was really beautiful. Within a month, I was sitting on a small fortune. I took down just about every SnG I played and totally ripped apart the cash games. Occassionally, some twit would suck out on me with a real turd of a hand, but hey, there’s no excuse for stupidity. Overall, I could handle the bad beats because they barely dented my ever growing bankroll. I think the high water mark for me was looking on shark scope one day and seeing a sharks fin next to my name. And then it all fell down.
I suffered the most horrendous run of unbelieveable bad beats you could imagine. Many times I’d flop the absolute nuts and have some twit push all in. I’m not about to lay the nuts down so I call. Every time this happened, they’d get runner runner to beat me. It was so ridiculously rigged. During this time, I must have been dealt pocket aces about a hundred times and managed to get all the money in pre flop about 50% of the time. How many times did my aces stand up? Thats right, none. Every time my aces got cracked. In the space of about a month, I lost my entire bankroll of $30,000 and so decided to look for somewhere else.
Incidentally, I still go back there occasionally for a laugh. It’s now literally impossible for me to win a hand but I get a bit of a laugh from seeing the different ways they screw me. Get this. One hand I actually won on a small pair yet they gave my opponent the money on a high card. We were both astounded.
Anyway, so I move on to Poker Stars. Again, I start off like an express train though I must admit that on more than one occasion I got lucky. That started the alarm bells ringing. I knew it was time to move on again when in successive hands, I was dealt AA, AA, KK, AA. On each occasion I managed to get all the money in the middle pre flop and each time I got beat.
On to Full Tilt. Here I’m quite happy. There’s generally a good standard of player and your good hands normally stand up. But now i’m pretty cynical. Yes, I had bad beats but not more than I’d consider REAL. This is important. I gradually build up my bankroll in SnG’s and ring games and after a couple of cash ins on low limit MTT’s I find that I keep getting undone by the same hand. Just coincidence I tell myself. You must realise that now I’ve become a very tight player and I never commit my chips to the pot without knowing I’ve got the best hand. I’ve long since realised that internet players aren’t very good at laying their hands down so I always make sure I only get my money in when i’ve got the best of it.
I’m now at the point where I have to start making money. So here I am, sitting at a ring game with my entire bank roll. Not a good move but now i’m getting a bit desperate. In the first hour, I’ve played 4 hands. The rest have been folded. As yet, I’ve not won a hand. I’ve completely missed the flop and then faced a raise. I’ve folded each time. In the next hour I’ve received the biggest glut of cards i’ve ever had and every time i’ve hit a monster hand. Unfortunately, each time, one of my opponents has hit a bigger monster. My set of sevens was second to a set of queens, my nut straight was rivered by a flush, my eights full of kings met with quads, my 2 pair AK was crushed by an eight high straight, so on and so forth.
I know what you r thinking, right? Wrong. Let me repeat. I am a tight player. I play a small range and don’t bet until I hit my hand. I’m not loose, in fact after all of the bad beats i’ve had, I’m now perhaps too careful. The only thing I know is that prior to playing online poker, I was a pretty good player. Now, I don’t think I could tell you what a winning hand looked like if it jumped up and bit me on the arse.
At one point I was doing so well and making so much that I quit my job. Now i’m broke. Online poker has done this. Personally, I feel (and with good reason) that all poker sites are rigged. The better you are, the more they screw you over.
I’m never playing online again. If you do ever see me playing online again take this tip. Call me all in with nothing. You’ll win every time.
Of course its rigged. Its not upto to us the players to prove its rigged but the sites to prove they are fair, but they wont do this why? If they have nothing to hide allow independent auditors in to evaluate their algorithm, rng and whole operation. Then it will be fair. Online poker is the only business in the whole world where the ownus is on the customer to prove its unfair!
who are all these dicks saying that unline poker isnt fixed?? and you know this how?? sites saying prove it? i think not!if you if you accuse it,you wont even get a reply or just some corporate bullshit written by lawyers,ill give you an example of a fundamental flaw in 888.com i was big blind,small blind was present but then a gap to the button in a tournament,i was struggling,luckily everyone folded and i was one step closer to a seat for the big tourney,then when i think ill be small blind a newbie comes to my table and fills the gap,imagine how shocked i am when i discover theres no dead button and im big blind again,a big stack goes all in and even if i had 6 aces im still not able to call,luckily i scrape thru and get the seat…..i email 888.com and express my views at this having nearly killed my tourney,there response shocked me…….they say they are aware of the problem but couldnt give me a timescale for it to be fixed,however altho it was a problem for me this time it could be to my advantage if it had happened to some one else……..i have two problems with this,first i want to beat my opponents fairly,second this website has been running since 1997,so am i to believe this has not been reported before or that in that time they still havent found a soulution?? oh and if you doubt the email i can forward you a copy,oh and by the way im a winning internet gamer as i put it,but i choose not to play.the people who think its fair??……keep depositing lol
id also like to reply to d murray comment 11 on winning hands for the first few days,i played on the above site for three days,three days in that time iwas dealt not one but two royal flushes,two!! am i that lucky??i play live games every week iv never seen a royal in fact most of my friends ages from 18-60+ have never and i get two LOL
i played on stars 4 years ago and lost 350 big bets went to party and won 50k at 10/20 went back to stars after party closed in usa and lost 500 more big bets who has ever heard of an 850 big bet losing streak by a successfull poker player, absurd
It is all bogus. The most ridiculous shit on the planet. I win when I play live but I always loose to amazing river comebacks online. FULL TILT SUCKS ASS!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
all sites such as party poker, poker stars, full tilt and others, are cheating openly and e are now building a website proving these to include the absolute poker scandal which is not as bad as pokerstars and party poker.
these poker companies employ people as table managers and online security.
how these guys getts paid? they enter the high stak tournaments and win these rigged games.
10 percent isnt enough for these large sarks called on line poker rooms.
Jst think,
3 thousand players/victims per tourney at $5 usdllrs each = 15$ usdollars total pot.
plus the 10% for the poker company =$1500 us golars net profit for the company.
But out of the $150000 pot ten thousand dollars ill be split to the first 15 winners.
Now why these onlinepoker owners can settlle for ONLY $1500 when they can steal another ten grand?
10 grand from one tourney only x 20 tourneys = TWO HUNDREND THOUSAND DOLLARS IN ONE DAY ONLY
Now these we call large profits.
Who you think can control them??
NO ONE.
So dont ask about prooves for cheating.
They can cheat more than one way in any table, any tourney anyway.
The best hing to do is no to go in any online poker unless someone built a site with freerolls only and all winners can be publisised
Mean time i let you in to a secret.
If you lost money to these poker companies you can claim your money back from your credit card.
Banks are aware that online poker is a major fraud and you only have to fill a form asking for all your money back because the company has taken the money by deception.
UNFAIR gaming it is a deception.
so claim your loosing money back
i see alot of you think poker websites are rigged. I’m not saying they are and i’m not saying there aren’t as i can’t prove it one way or the other.
But ask yourselves this… how is it that there are players out there that have made over $1 million playing online poker if the game is rigged?
If you play live games are you saying you’ve never had these bad beats? Yes i know you get them nearly every hand when playing online bla bla bla. If you think your such a great player but still losing online and you think it’s fixed why are you still playing online poker? It’s the height of stupidity if you’re sure these webistes are rigged yet still you play on them. Anyone that does this must be completely retarded. Why don’t you just chuck your money down a drain instead.
How would one prove that the poker rooms are using several “bot players” playing for the house in all major tournaments?
“If you play live games are you saying you’ve never had these bad beats? Yes i know you get them nearly every hand when playing online bla bla bla. If you think your such a great player but still losing online and you think it’s fixed why are you still playing online poker? It’s the height of stupidity if you’re sure these webistes are rigged yet still you play on them. Anyone that does this must be completely retarded. Why don’t you just chuck your money down a drain instead.”
Super? What? It’s called a gambling addiction.
Online poker is NOT rigged. Without a doubt, anyone telling you so has an agenda so do not listen to them. I am so sick of people telling me it’s rig to keep the cash flowing and fishes from exiting the system. Many even dare to say that some can see your HOLE cards which we all know is impossible. I, POTRIPPER (like the entire industry) can confirm this also because I’ve made hundreds of thousands if not millions from online poker personally. Yessiree, my success comes from talent like the ability to call ALL-INs raises with 10 high! So the next time you hear stories of “shrills”, “doomswitches”, and “railbirds with impossibly low ID#” just laugh it off and know that your money is safe.
Lol, i’ve heard the same thing over and over and over again.
Infact i made a website with the name as to be totally ironic. Makes for good jokes though huh?
The opening letter on this page is a joke. I came into this site a few weeks ago and read this letter. I think this guy must think all people are jerks and have no brains. If he thinks posting a letter as above will change my mind about his site then he is the jerk
The following is a hand played about ten minutes ago on his site. I had folded pocket 4s, knowing if I came into the hand I would get my butt kicked.
Note this was a pre flop ALL IN
Alessio831: shows [Ks Ad] (two pair, Nines and Fives)
bobazumii: shows [8s 9d] (a full house, Nines full of Fives)
bobazumii collected 360 from side pot
kalinsc1: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
bobazumii collected 3740 from main pot
tdall is connected
Note in the above hand the weakest hand wins. This happens to often . In A tourney I played before this one. I was on the SB With k9 os, the BB was the table short stack, and holding pocket aces. All the other plays folded to me. My wife was watching me play and I had told her I will take this player out if he calls my all in. I pushed he called, The flop came 9kk. Cracking his Aces.
I can give proof to the fact these sites are not ramdom as they claim. I invite you to sit with me as I play there program, ( NOT POKER ) and call what will happen base on who is in the hand and the chip stack each player has.
For you players having a problem with winnig here is a tip. This is in tourney play only.
1 stay away from chip leads when they make a rise and you are holding a calling hand. You will loose this play most of the time.
2 The same holds true if the table short stack pushes all in and you are holding a calling hand. You will also loose in this play often.
You can call these players but only when the time is right.
3 play tight, do NOT play any QJ - J-10 A9 THUR A2, PLAY A10 HOWEVER DO NOT RISE WAIT TO SEE IF A PL
taken about 30-35 cashouts… only ever making one deposit of $30 on 888.com . only like 80-$200 a peice though, each cashout. all was fine.. seemed normal . some bad weeks here and there, acceptable… thats poker. . playing either loose agressive or tight agressive, depending on the table , and how well i think im playing ( prefer to play semi-loose agressive if im on my A game.. ) but then, i took out 2 cashouts of $1000 a peice. 4 months ago.
now, even if i play super tight agressive (888.com by the way) .. in 4 months period , when i have put my money all in on the flop, or turn, 1v1… and looking at the cards, knowing im between 85-96% favourite… i have lost no less than 8/10 of these situations. and i play at least 5 hours a day. 90-95% favourite nearly all the time, if my money goes in .. i have lost 8 out of every 10 times.. and this is no lie. i can take a bad beat or 2, or aweek or 3, or whatever. but this, for 4 months? runner runner and 2 outers cracking my 95% favourite hand almost everytime when the money gets shuved in?
i just wish i could show you my hand history. also in the 4 months, there is no such thing as a safe card.. i raise what i know is the best hand, and i know probably by a good percent … the turn, and river, create all teh possible draws that my opponent could be on, or cards to split it with him … if its 4 of the same suit or i raise with a set and the board ends up 6789 with 3/4 same suit on it. i literally call the turn and river as i bet, however big i bet.. to protect my hand. now, if by some miracle they havent hit.. which of course they do every single time… then, im not getting paid as its a complete scare flop for my opponent anyway. so every hand that i do win becomes unprofitable if i bet it .. and if i go all in, and they do call , if i have 90-95% favourite odds, like i say.. i really do lose now , 8/10 times.. for 4 months solid.
all this, since taking out 2 larger than usual cashouts……
*shrugs* .
i have to resort to finding complete and utter donks..
to be honest, on 888, i hate flopping top set, even on an apparant nice looking board ( no scare cards ) because if i raise and get re raised big, of course im pushing all in if i think the donk will call. he calls and , as its such a favourite… i lose with it most the time.
in 4 months, regardless of how played.. flopping a set with A kicker, if all in, now often gets busted by the caller with set who hits lower kicker on turn, if by some MIRACLE it does not.. then it just gives him a split. i have not won when flopping a straight in 4 months….. if i can get the money all in.. tehy either hit runner runner or again… it turns and rivers a splitting straight.
if i flop a flush, nut flush or whatever… again, regardless of how played… i cannot win with that hand either…
been done by runner runner no less than 10 times in the last 2 days…
not to mention the bitter one today, holding k j , on a kk q board.. against a calling station.. who raises. i call with position… next card, q . i already put him on a q, but then he bets, so i re raise.. he re re raises, being a calling station, now i was beyond doubt he had a q… i figure with position i can call this and he will bet again and i can then put him all in. or just go all in… no matter what he was putting his money in ….
of course… river came q … . not the first time that’s happened to me ill admit.. but that, with the other bad beats ( and i mean, serious bad beats) in 8/10 big pots for 4 months, when im honest to god, 90-95% favourite. often 95% … 20/1 ….
i only been playing 4 years, but for everyday… but had more bad beats in 4 months, since these irreguler larger cashouts… than ive had in 4 years.. and that again, is no lie.
been playing for money stakes only a year, on the 25c nl stakes, turning the 1 $30 deposit into nearly 6k … but i really feel like it should be so so so much more…..
since taking out that 2k, after making 30 small cashouts… i dont think ive made more than $750 .. and thats often because there is always one complete donk who dont even know what hand he is holding… to pay you off on the river when uve just checked down or placed tiny bets in with the the nuts all the way….
i know nearly everyone who writes here, is gonna say its rigged… else why would you of clicked into google ” cash out curse ” in the first place ;)
but damn, im convinced…….
i really just wish i could show anyone here the past 4 months of my hand history. you would refuse to believe it. or even just the past 3 days….
In my post above, I tell you to stay away from playing against table short stacks when they push all in. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE STRONG.
The following hand was played in a tourney just a few min. ago. I folded JJ TO THE ALL IN OF THE TABLE SHORT STACK. I FOLDED BECAUSE I KNEW HE WOULD HIT A WINNING HAND NO MATTER WHAT TWO CARDS HE WAS HOLDING. A preflop all in with crap turns into gold. LMAO hits a st8 on the 3 flop cards.
Dealt to ——-me [Jh Js]
rutti888: calls 200
hoagie407: raises 612 to 812 and is all-in
——-me: folds
gstaranto: folds
tombeacon: folds
Tartan Ace: folds
iPoker$tar: folds
Dadadj: folds
rutti888: calls 612
*** FLOP *** [8c 6s 5d]
*** TURN *** [8c 6s 5d] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [8c 6s 5d Ad] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rutti888: shows [Td Kc] (high card Ace)
hoagie407: shows [9d 7c] (a straight, Five to Nine)
hoagie407 collected 1924 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1924 | Rake 0
Board [8c 6s 5d Ad 9c]
Seat 1: Dadadj (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: rutti888 showed [Td Kc] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: hoagie407 showed [9d 7c] and won (1924) with a straight, Five to Nine
This is the program reading and deliving the needed cards to this player.
—————
I ALSO tell you in my above post DO NOT PLAY THE CHIP LEADER AT YOUR TABLE HERE IS WHY . Note I was on th BB with this hand. Had I not been I always would fold pocket 22
Seat 8: TaDealt to —–ME [2d 2c]
tombeacon: folds
Dadadj: calls 400
hoagie407: calls 200
pittbulljim: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s Kd 3s]
hoagie407: bets 400
pittbulljim: ——ME 400 to 800
Dadadj: raises 11395 to 12195 and is all-in
hoagie407: folds
pittbulljim: calls 2585 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2s Kd 3s] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [2s Kd 3s 5s] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
—–ME: shows [2d 2c] (three of a kind, Deuces)
Dadadj: shows [Kh Kc] (three of a kind, Kings)
Dadadj collected 8470 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
I busted out on this hand. Taking 4th in prize money. I have yet to win a hand played against the chip leader when I am all in with him. You all know even if you were just hoping to get lucky and suck out just once, it most likly would happen sooner or later. Now please tell me why I just don’t have any luck playing chip leaders at me tables
When you play on poker stars watch the stacks, Look to see where the pots are going and to whom. Remember them and see if you see the same thing I am seeing. Look for the program traps. Spot them and try to avoid them.
There are many other things you need to pick up as to program,
In short playing great poker on line at any of these sites is not good enough.
YOU NEED TO LEARN THE PROGRAM. And avoid its BS Traps. If you can.
Good luck!
Dealt to —ME [Ac 6c]
pokerpitchen: calls 20
hoagie407: calls 20
Ejohnson88: calls 20
preccat2005: calls 20
—ME: calls 20
libs44: folds
suffhannoi: calls 20
nougat1980: calls 10
file1010: raises 180 to 200 and is all-in
pokerpitchen: calls 180
hoagie407: calls 180
Ejohnson88: folds
preccat2005: calls 180
—ME: folds
suffhannoi: calls 180
nougat1980: folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 7d Qh]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: bets 40
preccat2005: folds
suffhannoi: calls 40
pokerpitchen: calls 40
*** TURN *** [5h 7d Qh] [4c]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: bets 40
suffhannoi: calls 40
pokerpitchen: calls 40
*** RIVER *** [5h 7d Qh 4c] [6h]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: checks
suffhannoi: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokerpitchen: shows [Kc Kd] (a pair of Kings)
hoagie407: mucks hand
suffhannoi: mucks hand
pokerpitchen collected 240 from side pot
file1010: shows [3h Jh] (a flush, Queen high)
file1010 collected 1060 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
How about this one with 5 players in the hand. Table short stack pushes and wins with a flush. I folded A6 SUITED. Still think they are ramdom?
Summing this up
I have posted above just a few hands of the many I could have posted. I have been on both ends of these hands. I won many pushes as the table short stack even when I had the worst of it going in.
I have called some of these pushes losing the hand with the best going in.
I made 3 calls with pocket aces only to have them crushed by a st8 or flush or two pair. I have also folded pocket aces, kings, queens, jacks, ak, to these pushs and was glad I did. In some of the hands as many as 80% of them, I got to see the outcome. I would have helped to chipped these players up.
Now lets not forget the table chip leaders who often sucks out when you have him beat. But if he has you beat going in, you will not suck out and take the hand from him.
Funny thing just happened as I am typing this post, I am also playing a tourney. I am the table short stack look what happens
Dealt to pittbulljim [Th Jc]
xantilius: raises 1350 to 1450 and is all-in
iownyou66: folds
smokyxxx: folds
gpasi420: folds
lnascarfa06: folds
snake2077: folds
pittbulljim: calls 990 and is all-in
MaVEricK9966: folds
Popcorn 222: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js Td 3c]
*** TURN *** [Js Td 3c] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [Js Td 3c 7d] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xantilius: shows [Kc Ah] (high card Ace)
pittbulljim: shows [Th Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
pittbulljim collected 2130 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2130 | Rake 0
Board [Js Td 3c 7d 5d]
Seat 1: MaVEricK9966 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Popcorn 222 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: xantilius showed [Kc Ah] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 4: iownyou66 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 5: smokyxxx folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 6: gpasi420 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 7: lnascarfa06 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 8: snake2077 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 9: pittbulljim (button) showed [Th Jc] and won (2130) with two pair, Jacks and Tens
LMAO- Just got busted out by the chip leader
Dealt to pittbulljim [Td Ts]pittbulljim: raises 1130 to 1380 and is all-inpuzruz: folds KingFisha420: folds NETOAAAA: folds gaviotta: folds muedi: folds * Ecci 68 *: folds costello99: folds box72: calls 1130*** FLOP *** [5h 8c 7s]*** TURN *** [5h 8c 7s] [Jc]*** RIVER *** [5h 8c 7s Jc] [7h]*** SHOW DOWN ***box72: shows [8s Jh] (two pair, Jacks and Eights)pittbulljim: shows [Td Ts] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)box72 collected 3110 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3110 | Rake 0 Board [5h 8c 7s Jc 7h]Seat 1: NETOAAAA folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 2: gaviotta folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 3: muedi folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 4: * Ecci 68 * (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 5: costello99 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 6: box72 (big blind) showed [8s Jh] and won (3110) with two pair, Jacks and EightsSeat 7: pittbulljim showed [Td Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and SevensSeat 8: puzruz folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 9: KingFisha420 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
WELL NOW HOW ABOUT THAT.
HE IS ON THE BB WITH CRAP AND TURNS IT INTO GOLD. ONCE HE MADE THE CALL I KNEW I WOULD GET BUSTED. DO YOU STILL THINK THIS IS RAMDOM?
Ok lets sum this up.
Is online poker RIGGED? In my eyes YES, How about yours. Have my posts help you to see the light? i hope so.
Can you win playing online Yes, But you will only win what the program will let you win. AND no more than that.
Are the cards that being DEALT all cards dealt RAMDOM? Not in my eyes. How about yours?
Do short stacks and chip leaders have an advanage? IN MY EYES YES. HOW ABOUT YOURS
Will I make any more deposits? NO. How about You?
metfair poker is rigged
i have been playing on there for 4 years and have the folllowing stats
hole cards above an 8 = 9%
hole cards below an 8 = 63%
deuces that come in hole cards 35%
aces that come in hole cards 3%
hands wom when all in in the lead 14%
hands won when all in not in lead 2%
this can be proved by my hand history
if u wish to see it
they are cheating
they register in Malta
no real laws to scrutinise them
not liable to any laws in this country
have seeded players
and decisions after the call
only response you get from them is “it is random”
well no way is it random
I have played poker live for over 20 years,i have played on most of the sites.I kept a very open mind for along time as to whether or not the rumours of a rigged game were true,infact i strongly leaned towards them not being rigged.Since that time a few years ago and having played many hours online(mostly on pokerstars)i have come to the conclusion that they are indeed rigged.I am so convinced of this that nothing could change my mind.I dont care how many employees of pokerstars come forward saying it is not ,by the way did you know that 25% of pokerstars is owned by the employees giving them an even stronger motivation to testify as to the fairness of the game.Hand histories mean NOTHING!!!.Even if the companies that tested the software were legitimate this means NOTHING. Nobody is saying that every 10th card will be an ace or some kind of pattern like that,ofcourse they could not predict what card is coming next, as it can be determined as needed by the software.These companies are indeed motivated by greed,they are unregulated,based in a banana republic and answer to nobody.If you play online keep the sites guessing by not giving all of your buisness to one site,make them want to keep you happy,or everyone boycott them for a month and see what happens…good luck!(does not apply to online poker,luck not involved).
Man i saw this dude and he went all in ok you following me and he had 22 and he gets called by ak jq 9 10 7 8 and 34 and he loses to two pair aces and kings well the pair of deuces was the best hand and it lost man this is so rigged i dont see how he lost i mean he had a pair of deuces
Okay I think some poker rooms are rigged (Full Tilt) because I had pocket Qs and I get called by two players and one had pockets 7s and the other had 8-7 and on the river of all cards to come out is a 7?! What are the odds of that really? Another time I had A-10 and flopped the nuts (straight Ace high) and the flop was rainbow I go all in and get called the player had Q-8 of diamonds and he caught runner runner for a flush! are you kidding me? Come on? can anyone explain it to me?
Are people nuts? ALL, yes all the poker sites are rigged. Rigged for them (the owners) not exactly. They are rigged to keep you constantly putting money in. Plain and simple! They make money either way!!! Full Tilt is the biggest joke and they should be ashamed for their crap software and miracle hands seen. As a matter of fact, Full tilt should be sued, prosecuted for fraud, and their owners shot! AP is right behind them. Heck, they have an investigation into millions stole by there OWN people. Blowdog is another joke of a site and just as many bad beats there. Play live poker.
everyone seems to miss one simple point, how on earth can you program a computer to do something randon, there is no equation to it, and the equation used to program all the poker sites is badly off the mark, if you can give me the equation for random, please do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s rigged. Why wouldn’t they rig it?
And yeah, to all the idiots who say “why play if it’s rigged?” it’s because people are addicted to gambling! Duh.
im not going to post a hand history or quote 1 hand as evidence that pokers fixed but im going to ask if any of the following ring true.
winning for the first few days / weeks of joining a site and then losing it all and more???
knowing that you going to have a bad session after your first bad beat is followed by bad beat after bad beat usually to the one card in the deck that improves your hand AND your opponents hand ??? (e.g. K of spades giving you a straight but your opponent a flush)
knowing when you will have a good session within 5 minutes when you win a few hands which then just carries on and on.
I believed that poker wasnt fixed but does any one else think that their loses AND wins follow a pattern and the quality of your session is decided as soon as you sit down ???
PS I made a bundle on fulltilt when i first opened the account while waiting 10 months for a free gift to arrive. as soon as it arrived the CONSISTENT bad beat started
which site do people think is the most rigged (out of the big ones)
stars, party or full tilt ???
my vote is for full tilt (you sit down at another site and it just “feels” different. the winning hands are smaller, your cards are worse (which is a good thing). ive lost the last 5 times with jacks on Fulltilt
Of course its Rigged,
I lost 5 out of 6 all inn’s
And was at least 4:1 dog.
Shouldnt be opposite????????
Hand history tell me that my pocket pair of aces are as good as my 83????
And that is normal?
If you want to discuss whether online poker (or anything for that matter) is “rigged”, you have to define what exactly we mean by “rigged”. If your definition of “rigged” is: where the outcome is predetermined or determined by some kind of collusion, the online poker is NOT rigged.
If, however, you define “rigged’ as being: where the process is significantly different then the participants think or believe, then online poker IS. The fact of the matter is that the method used to determine hands is nothing even remotely close to what the players understand it to be.
In order to understand what online poker is, we must understand from where it comes and how it came about. Online poker was NEVER intended to be a re-creation of poker, only online. It did not arise as a result of demand by poker players for alternative venues. In short – it was never for POKER PLAYERS.
Online poker was designed specifically as a product to meet the demand for this “thing” that people saw on TV after Stephen Libscomb designed the WPT broadcast. Up to that point, poker was NOT popular in the U.S. Why? Because it’s like soccer – it’s BORING – that’s why! There was no need to create an online version of an activity that very few people were interested in. However, once people got exposed to seeing “poker on steroids” – the most exciting highlights culled specifically for entertainment value – TELEVISION POKER – people were interested in doing THIS.
And THIS is what online poker was intended to simulate. It was NEVER intended to be a simulation of an essentially slow-moving, boring activity. People saw TV POKER and wanted THAT. The task given to the programmers was to create something with the same excitement level and action aspects of the TV POKER product that attracted people in the first place.
Hence, when it looks like A5 is beating AK more than, say 1 time out of 4 – this is why. It’s because IT IS. It’s because it does ON TV and this is what 99.9% of the online players were expecting. If it seems like the river card is deciding the results of the hand a lot – if it seems like someone seems to be hitting that 3-outer more than 8 times out of 100 (LOLOL) – it’s because THEY ARE – because they do ON TV
The reasons why the process would NOT be different – the reasons people give – are all ridiculous. I have posted on other forums and will hear if need be. I also can explain the manner in which hands are decided and dealt.
If you want to discuss whether online poker (or anything for that matter) is “rigged”, you have to define what exactly we mean by “rigged”. If your definition of “rigged” is: where the outcome is predetermined or determined by some kind of collusion, the online poker is NOT rigged.
If, however, you define “rigged’ as being: where the process is significantly different then the participants think or believe, then online poker IS. The fact of the matter is that the method used to determine hands is nothing even remotely close to what the players understand it to be.
In order to understand what online poker is, we must understand from where it comes and how it came about. Online poker was NEVER intended to be a re-creation of poker, only online. It did not arise as a result of demand by poker players for alternative venues. In short – it was never for POKER PLAYERS.
Online poker was designed specifically as a product to meet the demand for this “thing” that people saw on TV after Stephen Libscomb designed the WPT broadcast. Up to that point, poker was NOT popular in the U.S. Why? Because it’s like soccer – it’s BORING – that’s why! There was no need to create an online version of an activity that very few people were interested in. However, once people got exposed to seeing “poker on steroids” – the most exciting highlights culled specifically for entertainment value – TELEVISION POKER – people were interested in doing THIS.
And THIS is what online poker was intended to simulate. It was NEVER intended to be a simulation of an essentially slow-moving, boring activity. People saw TV POKER and wanted THAT. The task given to the programmers was to create something with the same excitement level and action aspects of the TV POKER product that attracted people in the first place.
Hence, when it looks like A5 outflops AK only to be turned or rivered more then 1 time in 10 – this is why. It’s because IT IS. It’s because it does ON TV and this is what 99.9% of the online players were expecting. If it seems like the river card is deciding the results of the hand a lot – if it seems like someone seems to be hitting that 3-outer more than 8 times out of 100 (LOLOL) – it’s because THEY ARE – because they do ON TV
The reasons why the process would NOT be different – the reasons people give – are all ridiculous. I have posted on other forums and will hear if need be. I also can explain the manner in which hands are decided and dealt.
point no.1
do simple analysis. at the middle of game not at start not at final table.
record all the hands that chip wins and record all the hands that other players wins. make a graph my result was 78% chip leader wins althought half the time he has less ranked hand than the other player.
If you have same results ask why is that?
point no.2
hand history is not available what you get is only what you played.
you can not see other peoples card which is folded if you want to prove something information need to be fully available. they say the provide complete hand history to independent sources but i think they are not independent. An independent source would be some thing like last years history available to buy for normal people.
point no.3
there are software algorithms available i mean AI and neural networks capable of manipulating the deal . If you are a IT student like me may be you know that you only had to define some function to favour the poker site statistically. lets take an example I want maximum rakes R or I want maximum number of player having there rank always in the middle. It is possible and very easy for a student for company they can change there algorithms every week
point no.4
millions are earned by bussiness people they are clever and smart and they got the resources they utilize the skilled people . Skilled people themselves can not earn that much because of lack of resources . so the offer to you to prove has a catch you dont have enough resources.
Yes I agree with Captain Truth, online poker is designed or programmed to excite the players and the audience. It is rigged or fashioned so. It is a big time and big profit entertainment business.
Imagine any game that would go on and on - BORING and thus a big “entertainment” loser. So, you limit the amount of money a player starts with. Then, you increase the amount of the blinds to the point where it creates action by a player regardless of the down cards. You have a play by play, so to speak, to excite the TV audience. And you do it all in a classy place. I suspect that it’s a very profitable business. Perhaps a passing fad. But, in the meantime…
Online poker for real money should be outlawed because it’s giving the business a bad rap. Free online poker sites gives a person basic training and experience. It also provides a continuous supply of tournament players.
Ken
listen up u fkn donkeys online poker is not rigged
heres a couple reasons to prove it.
1.u fkn so called great players play fkn donkey limits with 80 percent of the players being nothing but complete morons. they call when they should raise,raise when they should fold, and fold when they should raise. its notthe site its the competition
2.play a $5/10 or higher game and see the difference 70% of the hands dont go past the flop. and if a
donkey plays these limits he will go broke pure an simple.
3.you are not as good as u think u are ever since esp fucking n and the travel channel everyone fkn thinks there a great fkn poker player. your obviously not becuase its the same fkn excuses over and over again i lost when i flopped the nuts i lost with quads i lost with ace high flush wah wah wah.
4.any real poker player well tell you this its not the cards you fkn morons its u your predictable people know how u play and dont give a rats ass what u have i know i dont if i have a type of hand that can crack aces im gonna fkn call your 20xbb raise every fkn time to bust u for all your chips.
5.us real poker players play the fish(YOU) not the cards so quit whining take online poker low limit games for what there worth entertainment u cant make a living playing 5 cent 10 cent or even 50/$1 eventually the biggest bankroll comes out on top or for the real low games u cant beat the rake so shut the F#ck up cause ill kick your ass online as well as live i do great at both.
Thank you
Brian Elizardo
from massachussetts
come play me at foxwoods and ill take your pocket aces and take your whole bankroll in the process
Last night my wife wanted to learn to play poker. She’s never played before and so I was excited to deal the cards. We played heads up. In the first 10 hands I was dealt pocket kings. I bet.
According to my advice she called with a suited ace and we saw a flop. The flop came down 2d 4d Kd. She bet and I raised and she re-raised and I called. I figured she hit the flush and I was in trouble. I’d taught her how to play like 5 minutes earlier so I had a good idea what she held.
The turn came 4c. She bet huge and I re-raised her all in. She called right away and I told her that she had really bad luck when she flipped Ad 3d because a nut flush is an amazing hand but I caught a full house.
The river was the 5d. She won with a miracle straight flush in her first ten hands of playing poker against my kings full.
I took that deck of cards and tore them in half and burned them because clearly that deck was rigged.
WRONG!
In any small sample (and even theoretically in a bigger sample) the results can be terribly skewed. Most of our sample sizes are statistically insignificant. Don’t forget statistics class, if you flip a coin 5 times, there’s the same likelihood that it will land exactly HTHTH as HHHHH as THTHT. It seems like most of the poker site conspiracy theorists would say that if it didn’t come HTHTH or THTHT the first 5 throws that the coin must be rigged. If you flipped it 1000 times and it didn’t come heads between 450 and 550 times I might be suspect, but I can’t expect it to be 500 heads and 500 tails. Maybe one million flips would be very close to 50-50.
Our memory is even more statistically insignificant since we seem to only remember the bad hands. I swear just last night I won with pocket aces 3 times. I can’t remember any of the specifics, but I can tell you almost the exact bet sizes and suits of each card on the one hand where I lost with aces.
I think big Phil from Pokerstars lays down an excellent challenge. I love a good dare. Someone do it, blow this whole thing wide open. There’s a lot of money to be had for the guy who does. Good luck with that.
I’d rather play poker.
WOW! Brain
GREAT POST, Now with all that said.
GROW UP!
Do you think everyone who plays poker, plays for a living.
You are right when you say you can’t make a living playing .05 and .10 poker
But you can make a few bucks.
The fact that you play high limit poker will give you bigger wins. But a win is a win. If it a dollar or ten.
Any way I still stand on my ground and that is to say these sites are controling outcome of hands.
And yes badbeats, Badbeats are part of the game. However I am not taking about a bad beat happening. I telling you when they will happen.
brian, im laverton on poker stars, know alls like you are a dime a dozen, get you hand off it, it will fall off,
What a FARCE. This knucklehead who CLAIMS to be “Joker Stars” support says it’s “impossible” for them to be rigged. What does he provide as proof??? MuMBO JUMBO.
Bottom line, ALL online poker sites should be WILLING and in face PRO ACTIVE in having their sites put under the EXACT SAME rigorous control as Vegas casinos. NOT ONE of them have!
There are sites that have BOTS in games!!!
This writer would have you believe he’s telling you the truth because he SAID so!! WHat a JOKE!!!
Here’s a question I have for these APOLOGISTS for online sites. Why do you have to keep answering the question??? Funny thing is, one does NOT hear REPEATED accusations that Vegas is rigged.
Oh and I’m AB SO LUTE LY certain the “hand history” Philip A purports to make available is 100 PERCENT accurate! LMAO!!!! Can you imagine REAL gaming industries to offer THAT as PROOF??? “Well yes Mr. Inspector, it’s LEGIT, I SAID it was!!!” I’ll even give you the proof we keep.” ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Bottom line folks don’t EVER deposit YOUR money on the online poker sites until they are held to the EXACT same standards as Nevada or Atlantic City.
isn’t potripper the guy who was a cheating absolute poker employee? and he posted here saying it wasn’t rigged and he’s won a million?! har.
Yes Marc, That is correct. However I think the post was placed by someone else to make a point, And not by POTRIPPER.
for the last year and a half I have been playing a lot of poker online on various sites. Though I was a relative beginner, I now have a lot of experience in most variants of the game. I analyse all hand hisories using odds calculators like twodimes.net.
I only play micro stakes, and am a winning player (for what it is worth) at cash, sngs, and touneys. It strikes me that these “rngs” are rake-hungry monsters: even if there is only one action card possible as a turn, it almost inevitably comes.
I love poker, and manage to navigate these improbable mathematical minefields for a profit, but I feel like a mug for giving these businesses my money in rake.
micro stakes, at the very least, are definitely rigged on Full Tilt, Poker stars, Pokerroom, and 888.
All the best
navigate these improbable mathematical minefields WELL SAID HOHO
hahaahahaha murphy your a fkn idiot try making sense you micro dork i look for u on stars never seen u probably play micro cash games not worth my time loser i dont play for penniesi play for hundreds of course micro limits are rigged how else they gonnamake money off u idiots if not itjust be 6 people at one table waiting for the nuts everyhand with a maniac in it for the fun of it here’s the real scoop kiddies and donkeys when u decide to play yournext cash game in the wonderful world of micro limit trying getting everyone at the table to talk u ll get 1 maybe 2 at the most why u ask because morons these so called horrendous beats there happening against robots who play for the site your rake is worth sht to pokerstars so they put robots into the games to take your money. dont beleaveme try it next time u play say unless every one say im a flat hippie with no sack im not puttingmy on this table if u dont get all six or all 9 players to say it and all theysay is hi then there bots i wont play any game online unles i can atleast have a conversation with all six players. WOW BRIAN YOUR PARANOID am I am I really think about these fkn sht hole bumbs are regulated in madagascar peru or some other fkd up country they can do whatever the hell they want. BRIAN OMG YOUR A FKN IDIOT yeah ok im an idiot just try it make everyone at the table say something stupid i gurantee u ull only get one or 2 people that will so if u wanna play 2 humans and 3 bots who will turn over nothing but winning hands every time they play then go for it but i sure as hell wont.I put 2K a month up for online poker i play nothing lower 10/20 limit see the pots in this game get big so they dont have to use bots to make money or rig the deck to get there rake. WOW BRIAN IM SRY I CALLED YOU ALL THOSE THINGS YOU ARE A GENIOUS. yes I am arnt I u fools never looked at it that way did u now its starting to make sense aint it maybe im not such an asshole am I.
Thank you, I am the smartest Man alive lol JK
Brian
THis is a email i sent to JOker stars and Ultimate bet after the bs that happened to me. im still waiting on response ill print that as soon as i get it.
why do u feel the need to cheat hardworking people outta there money? what kinda scumbags are u people? why is it the same bull &^%&^% every time? why have u already been caught for cheating and want to tell me im wrong u ^%^%$ (*&&^ dont cheat please one of your own employees cheating the site. %&^%$ u rigged piece of &$^%$ uve taken my money for the last time. what a shocker though cant say i didnt see it comming as usual get my money in a 95 percent fav and oh my god what a surprise the 2 outter hits unbelievable what a miracle yeah it would be if i t doesent happen every time u put a huge amount of money into themiddle. Letme guess ^%$&^% joke bet.com i was up against a robot that works for one of your sites wasnt I. its ok u can tell me i know the truth u &$^%$ rig the random nuber generator why when u make &^%&^ billions of dollars a year anyway makes no fkn sense if you ask me but u assholes do it anyway. i mean if it wasnt true why are there so many complaints from legit players. I win on a regular bases when i play live and im playing 10/20 limit and 25/50 nl. but yet when i play 1/2nl or 3/6nl or even 10/20 limit online the same bull ^%$&^% always happens to me? Why I ask why? is it me am i not that good a player are the people that play 1/2 nl online really better than the people i play 25/50 with live are u %$#$@ nuts no its you assholes you fkn retards for one dont burn cards which *&^*& the whole game up 2 begin with second u have robots playing on table and u know thats &^%^% up but your greedy ass mother %$^%$ so you dont care. some how your random number generator is not random at all. i know your gonna send e so bull shit response i know that already but how about this send me something original this time explaing to me why i can win at 25/50 nl casino poker but cant beat 1/2 nl poker online i cant wait to hear that one
In closing You ^%$&&^ are not getting anymore money off of me i have told all my credit card companies to reject all charges to online gambling i have also put a block on any money being sent from me from western union or money gram outside the united states i have finally learned my lesson it took me 3 years alot of bull shit and almost 30 grand to learn the lesson but lesson well learned u assholes are fkn crooks and cant wait for internet poker to become legal in the united states so that you %$^%$ suckers well have to deal with the gaming commission and then well find out the truth once and for all i hope they legalize it then bam the GC is all over you mother (*&)(* like nothing id pay another 30 grand just to see that you idiots $#@$% up a good thing instead of being greedy and wanting more u should of just ran a legit game took the rake that was rightfully yours and never put robots in or cheated the players. So ^%$&^% you go to hell i cant wait for the day u mother &^%&^%* ^%$&%^$ are stopped
Thank you
Geoff $%^&*
heres the reply from pokerstars lol its a good one
We will be happy to address your concerns if you write to us in a
courteous manner, without the use of foul language.
Yuliya
PokerStars Support Team
Lol these mother fkn scubags cheat me outta 30 K and want to be courteous fuck them. theres your proof people Yuliya is the name sry btch but if your name in jen or somethng i can understand then u can go fuck yourself courteous these fkn scumbags gotta lot of balls
Wow!
At least Brian now claims some parts of online poker is RIGGED.
If even one small part of any online site is rigged it is one part to many.
People who play micro are putting money up just as well as players who play higher limits.
They should receive a hornest deal and not a rigged deal. Maybe one day the USA will open up to online poker and players will get a fair deal. But as for now all I see is rigged or controled play. No way in hell are these sites dealing ramdom cards. And if they are it is your hold cards ONLY.
If I could give proof to this I would. All I can give you is my word as to what I see happening on poker stars. And I will stand by it 100 percent. It is up to you to take it or leave it. I will also add yes I have won and cashout winnings but I still stand by what I say. Because I have won money dosn’t make these sites hornest. Do you think they did not understand they need to let you win one in awhile.
Ill say this online poker is weird i barely play online anyore i still have 6k in my stars account that i havent touched in almost 4mos now idk it just doesent appeal to ma any more ive read so munch shit and theres just way way way to many bad players online.
But here is a true fact about online poker and why its 50/50 that it could be rigged. one these robots that people are starting to talk about they may play for the site they may not. but the otherbig factor guys is this a wise wise man told me this would u really put $300-$1000 in the iddle of a pot when u cant see the guys face? Hell NO Fuck that i have a system for online poker and doesent require me spending more then 20-100 bucks a session now what i easily can afford. I now mostly am i live cash game player, mostly at foxwoods and atlantic city but did enjoy vegas a couple weeks ago what a difference the style of play is out there compared to up here.
And secondly guys holdem is not the most popular game in te world for nothing theres a reason behind it
Lets say for ex you at a 9 person table playing .25/.50
Nl A stupid game to be playing but still playing it none the less. Ok this is only assuming you are a intelligent player with atleast 1+ years experience in casino poker or 6mos experience in a $5/10 Nl game or higher the rest of u are just donkeys. if u havent played $5/10 online nl or $2/5 nl and won on aregular basis u are a fish and this saple does not pertain to u. But put me in a game of micro limit poker i have a 2/1 edge on the game because in a game like that im not even gonna look at my cards half the time.3 rounds ill have the table read perfectly so wont most good players. now after watching the table i notice maybe 2 of my 8 opponets i have 2 watch out for the rest our dead money, so heres the math 25% of the players are decent players the other 75 percent out complete morons. sounds like a good table. Hell no that is a god awful table u give yourself a 2/1 edgeon the game and are at a 3/1 disadvantage to complete morons who will rely on 98% percent luck. Now if the cards come right then say hello to your car payment for the month but if they come wrong then your screwed i dont care how good u are u cant beat a hitparade of non stop flushes, str8s, sets runner runner bs, two outtes and all that bologna we have come to know as bad beats. See this is why we beleave online poker is rigged because in holdem your advantage is not as big as u think no matter how good u are when the little fish are catching all day for 4 hours str8 theres nothing u can do but say bye bye to your money. but in the long run online or live thegood players with that edge will win it all back. perfect exaple one guybustede up good for a night on pokerstars at .50/1 nl game took about 1400 off me. called me a donk a fish this this and that next day like thefish he was, sees me sitting at a $25/50 game Nl game way over his br and i knew it becuase he bought in for a little over 3k while i was sitting with $8K with plent more in reserves if needed i kicked his ass so bad he lasted 15 minutes in the game thats it,3k gone in 15 minutes, his whole br gone in 15 minutes. in his 50/1.00 game he had 30 strong buy ins good BR management but in this game he had one very very small buy in 3k his whole BR was 60 BB’s thats it. he was competing with guys who had over 200-300 BB’s or could atleast aford that munch.
So in closing guys Online poker May or May not be rigged I agree some of the way hands go down is really suspect. But its also alot to do with the players. heres some reasons which i will not degrade any one
1. Still alot of u think your better than u actualy are
2.most of you have really really bad Br management
3.You dont know how to select a game(Most online games are not very good odds in your favor)
4.some of u guys play way over your head.
5.holdem micro limit is 70/20 in favor of luck not skill so i dont care how good u are your still taking a risk playing these limits
6.There’s a right way and a wrong way to play online most of you are playing it wrong. theres 2 ways an online player makes his money and your gonna have to figure it out just as i did
and last but not least alot of u need coachs or atleast some one to teach you the proper ways to play the game when and how 2 bet,semi bluff, bluff, and read your opponetsby taking really good notes.
So I hope this makes up for My asshole post but i stand by that one as well. Do with this knowledge what you will but i am a very good player and have been making atleast 2500 a month playing poker for the past 3 years str8. ive had 6 losing months in those 3 years thats it so i hope this helps and im always around for advice i check this post daily so feel free to ask me any questions ud like.
Good day
Brian
As an engineer for Intel, I can tell you that the so called random number generator (RNG) is not truly random. It is a computer software program that has been structured to simply run like any other program.
At Poker Stars, their RNG is powered by Sierra Software (rubbish), written some 8 or 9 years ago. It has merely been updated to run on the Internet. If you really want to get better at online poker, check out ebay, flea markets and garage sales. Find an old copy of any Sierra card game and just play with it. Pay attention to the patterns and sequences as you play, take notes on how the cards fall etc., pay attention to those little idiosyncrasies that catch your eye and your game should greatly improve!
The above is a copy and pasted, I found this in a web site.
Note the part where he states pay attention to the patterns and sequences.
I can tell you for a fact there are patterns if you look for it you to will find them.
This letter shows how the softwares are not totally randomn….
From: Gary Serfas
Subject: FW: Full Tilt Poker Support - Your Poker Inquiry (KMM5859988I19928L0KM)
To: homesick74@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, May 19, 2008, 1:04 AM
This is one of them. I’m trying to find the reply I sent to him and his response regarding his so called “variance”. Enjoy
UNTIL NEXT TIME
Gary Serfas
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:15:50 -0700
> From: security@fulltiltpoker.com
> To: garyserfas@hotmail.com
> Subject: Full Tilt Poker Support - Your Poker Inquiry (KMM5859988I19928L0KM)
>
> Hello Gary,
>
> Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.
>
> I certainly understand how frustrating a bad run can be; I think as
> serious poker players, we can all relate to cold cards, horrendous
> coolers and the like.
>
> I do wish to impress upon you that variance is not a bad thing in
> poker–if there was no variance–that is, if the skillful players always
> won at their expected rate, the lesser players would never play with
> good players, such as yourself, on even ground. If you compare poker
> with other games of skill, you will notice that in no other game do tens
> of thousands of players make a living from the game. In chess, for
> example, you will not find any poor players playing against expert
> players for money on an even playing field.
>
> I understand that this is hard to grasp when one is being run over by
> seemingly lesser players, but variance allows the game to exist, and the
> less expert players to continue playing and enjoying themselves–if a
> poor player always lost, there would be no game (certainly no good game)
> in existence. It is actually a blessing for winning players such as
> yourself that occasionally, poor play is rewarded and good play is
> punished. Be confident that if you continue to play well, the statistics
> will take care of themselves and approach its theoretical mean. Keep
> playing, and keep studying the game, and I know that you will succeed in
> the long run.
>
> If you would like to see further discussion on this topic, please visit
> the following link written by Gigabet, a well known, successful online
> poker player:
>
> Gigabet link:
>
> http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1825403&p
> age=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1
>
> On behalf of Full Tilt Poker, and as a fellow player, I wish you the
> best of luck at the tables and hope to see you at the final table
> someday.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sunny
> Poker Specialist
> Full Tilt Poker Support
>
> ———————————————————————-
> Please remember never to give out your password or enter
> account details over the Internet. Full Tilt Poker staff will
> never ask you for your password. For your security, always
> keep this information a secret.
>
> Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros at Full Tilt Poker
> ———————————————————————-
>
>
> Original Message Follows:
> ————————
>
> I feel that the most fradulent thing on this site is the site itself.
> There is no possible way that poor players should be winning with the
> hands that they are playing with. The good players are being punished
> for their good play. Hands cannot consistently be dealt the way that
> they are. There are far to money good hand possibilities dealt into each
> hand. 3 Aces cannot be beat by a player who stays in a hand with the
> other Ace only to have4 suited cards dealt that match up with the other
> whole card of the poor player. This is only one example of the many
> rediculous scenarios the myself and other players are witnessing on a
> daily bases. A site that consistantly rewards poor play is a site that I
> donnot want to have anything to do with and if this type of play
> conyinues I will do everything that I can in ever chat room that I can
> to proclaim my feelings and I’m sure that many others will join in my
> concerns. Sites like yours and all of the other poker sites on the net
> that continue to support and reward terrible players will find
> themselves left with all of the donkeys that are playing on your sites.
> Perhaps that is your intentions because these players are to stupid to
> realize what is going on around them. I know a great number of online
> players both friends and collegues thatare very close to quitting
> playing online period, due to the constant frustration caused by the
> poor players constant rewarding for their redicdulous play and reward.
> Smarten up and look after your players on your site that know whats
> going on and are very disappointed and frustrated with the constant bad
> beats and the hands that are being dealt. How about becoming the first
> site that truly deals the cards the way they are dealt in live play. You
> will become the biggest site on-line and have a very loyal player base
> with which to grow your clients on.
——————————————————————————–
Everone that says online poker is not rigged used to use the reason that these sites would not do that because they alredy make enough money,well did any of you read about absolute poker,and ultimate bet(they are owned by the same people)they have both now been caught commiting insider cheating,google cheating at ultimate bet.Did the fact that they alredy make alot of money stop them from cheating,NO IT DIDNT>has your boss ever came to you and said ok folks take a break we have alredy made enough money today,i doubt it,as for the pros would you bite the hand that feeds you,i doubt that aswell,play for fun.
POtstripper,we know you made lots of cash, by CHEATING,you fucking basterd.
lets face it guys we are gonna be lucky to prove it as it seems like they have got theres backs covered,but we all know and although its annoying unless a governing body actually investigates the matter then it is always going to happen.why hasnt a governing body intervened? because they are like every politician in this country,being paid not to.its the way of the world at the moment.remember back to the future 2 where he came back to a totally corrupt world? well until we find the deloriom and go back and change time for the better then thats what we are stuck with! marty mcfly where are you?
I received an email very similar to the one above from pokerstars.com after i had made a comparable complaint against the randomness of their shuffle. To date, approximately 1 year later, i have not received the hand histories i was promised. i have contacted them several times and have heard nothing in return. My issue had absolutely nothing to do with taking bad beats. What i had noticed was that in some of the low-end sit-and-go tourneys there were certain scenarios recurring at decisive moments that appeared to me to defy the odds. i did a little tracking of my own - however not on a scale sufficient for statistical proof - which confirmed my suspicion. My theory, for which i would relish the opportunity to test against pokerstars’ “bluff,” is that the logarithm offered up by the site to its auditors is not being applied across the range of its games. Whilst I am sure it is being employed at its high-end tables, where the possibility of detection is much higher, along with the stakes involved for all parties, i do believe that it takes liberties with its lower stakes tables and tourneys, whe