After being fed up with a run of bad luck, a pokerstars player sent an email complaining about online poker being rigged. He was sent a personal reply explaining logical reasons why online poker is not rigged.
I have taken the liberty of reviewing your previous correspondence with our staff, so I understand that we have already discussed this matter on numerous occasions. Normally we would just close your emails on this subject without reply, but I would like to try and explain something to you. I hope you will therefore read the following and understand why it is impossible for us to run a rigged site.
All the commonly held ‘rigged’ theories are certainly possible, and make for a very interesting and advanced conspiracy theory, but they all suffer from the same problem - a fundamental logical flaw. This is because, unlike all other conspiracies, the evidence needed to prove them is freely available - let me explain:
The value of you proving this conspiracy theory is huge. There was one instance, in the early days of online poker, where the top site at the time had a shuffle algorithm that was not random - It was cracked by Cigital, one of the companies we commissioned to review our RNG and procedures. The site fixed the problem, but they never truly recovered and are now not even one of the top 20 sites. Everyone who has followed in their footsteps learned a valuable lesson indeed.
If you proved the PokerStars shuffle was not random it would be worth at least tens of millions of pounds (the value that another site would likely pay to eliminate us as a competitor), and to us it is worth more since you would have the evidence to end the company and the careers of everyone working here.
All you would need is a sufficient sample of hands and you could easily statistically prove the shuffle was not random. Given the amount you play you almost certainly have a sufficient sample yourself. You can even use PokerStat or PokerTracker to do the analysis for you.
Now we do freely give out complete hand history records to any player who asks for them, so we are in effect willing to give out the information you need to prove these conspiracies and destroy this company. To put that in poker terms, if we are involved in a conspiracy, then we are making the biggest bluff you have ever seen, since we are gambling hundreds of millions on the fact you wouldn’t do anything with the histories we would happily give you. In fact we even programmed the PokerStars client to store your hands to your hard drive if you want, so there can be no possibility of us fixing the histories either.
If it is a bluff, then it can’t be a smart decision from any perspective can it?.
So I ask you this. We have some exceptional poker players in this company, but do you think we make this bluff every day, or are we holding the absolute nuts as we *know* you would only be able to prove the shuffle is fair?
What I have given above is also the most basic form of this argument. I haven’t even detailed the fact that my colleagues and I have access to all the hands ever played on the site and could obtain a huge sample of hands within minutes. We have the same potential payoff to proving a conspiracy as you do.
In summary, the conspiracy theories are believable because you want to believe that the bad beats you suffer have a reason behind them. It’s easier to accept that than the fact that in a random game anything can happen. It’s also much easier to accept than the reality that if you play perfect poker all your beats will, by definition, be bad beats - which is a sobering truth.
So - a final question - you are happy to make these accusations via email, but do you want your entire hand history collection to finally prove we are cheating you and make your millions?
Regards,
Philip A
PokerStars Support Team
Ok fair enough I hear your points, but please step back and look at it from this perspective…..
You say online poker rooms would not risk rigging there cards etc… fair enough I agree with that, however….
Below are many things of why they WOULD rig the cards…
1. Higher stacks winning in tournaments = more players getting busted… which in turn means them players will then buy-in to another tourney and thus giving the poker room more fee’s.
2. More split pots in cash games = more rake for the poker rooms, but no players leaving.
3. Poker Rooms make so much money, whats to say that they dont pay off independent review companies to say their RNG isnt rigged…
4. More money in players accounts = potentially more money for the poker rooms, which means the cash out curse could potentially exist.
I do think online poker rooms are rigged, I have played many cash games and tournaments on many poker rooms, and I can almost second guess now who is going to win a hand, what players have got… etc…
For example I had pocket 99 on a tournament on another poker room today and I typed in the chat box, who has got JJ, and the player who was on BB shows JJ after it folds around to him.
Another example, was when I had AK suited first to act I asked in the chat box who has got KK and someone showed KK….
Then I predicted that the chip leader would win a hand all in against two other players One had AK, one had A-10 and chip leader has K-10…. K 10 won of course….
shark_bait
shark_bait, you’re a retard.
The reason you think poker is rigged is the same reason you completely failed to understand the whole point of the letter.
The crap you’re listing is also due to something called the “isolation effect”, it’s an error in thinking. So, essentially the reason you think all that shit you spewed out matters is because you can’t think correctly.
You said that if it was to be proven that sites like full tilt poker and pokerstars would be paying millions and millions if it was to be proven that their sites are rigged and subsequently are fraudelent and hence criminal.
Well if I were to go to settle down my Company HQ in a Banana Republic where the President and Parliament become my best friends because I add up for a majority stake of that particular Countries Economy and have enough to bribe the top leaders, then I guess it will be hard to bring Justice over these sites.
So why should they care, even if they are stealing? Most of the Websites know that this is a short term big gain Business, because after some time there will be so much competition that the gains will not be sustainable. Greed is what drives them !
I have played on most of these sites and if anyone tells me that they are not rigged or very odd in the give out of cards then the person is insulting my intelligence bigtime ! The other blogs that are favoring the websites are simply employees of those sites and not a customer. Maybe they even play much on these sites themselves. I have mostly won in the Casino playing poker, but never won Online. Not because some donkey forced me to bet in most of my chips, but rather very rare cards, when calculating would come up with little chances: those cards would come up the most. The funny thing is on bad beats you can make out that the river comes up with a frozen delay. Its like someone is sitting on a Computer that controls the cards and is trained to bring up the right card for you to lose. Or maybe the Program is configured in a way to make you lose. But it is very obvious. And the problem in todays world is that most Polticians and MNCs are going deeper and deeper in doing whatever they want and surpress the normal people. It is the normal peoples fault to say they are too weak to do something against them. All Idiots: You have more Power then anyone, especially with the Internet !
Man, what a well set-up website!
Yes online poker is rigged I’m so tired of the debate and the sites asking for someone to prove it
even the best theives get caught eventually just remember these Poker sites are stealing from honest people who put there trust in these sites to be fair
lets face it if you were to play poker with normal hands that are dealt out when playing real poker people would not spend as much time on your sites playing because poker is a game of patience and would be boring to most players to sit and wait for a good hand to be played
they would just lose intrest in the game so these sites make every hand action packed to make even the worse player think he has a shot at winning
when watching poker on tv do you no how much editing goes into just showing the hands that are worth to see a 3 day tourney we get a good half hour of tv with average hands as for online every hand is a movie in its self
Wow, everyone seems to be extremely anti-poker site. The real genius above that pointed out he could call other people’s hands wrote down the only two examples he’s probably ever seen. Nice job bud. The fact is very simple, poker sites make huge money and they can do it honestly. If they were cheating and happened to see a technician retire, don’t you think it’d be a little bit risky? The simple truth is that online your bound to see bad beats, it’s due to the high volume of hands and players. In a casino you can play about 20-40 hands an hour depending on size of the table and amount of players. Online, the number soars to 120+ hands an hour. Your bound to see more than a bad beat every 30 hands so that’s why the complaints will never stop coming in. I don’t think online poker is rigged, and if I’m wrong, it’s still been a profitable mistake for me
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This is a truth that online poker is rigged. or may be not completely rigged. and who is rigging it capitalism not only in online poker but also in every part of your life. Example invasion of Iraq 11 sept bla bla bla if you open your eyes you will see many in your country as well. SIMPLE IS THAT WHO HAS THE MORE MONEY HAS THE MORE SHIT TO PROVE.
Answer to being a profitable mistake -> ofcourse it is a profitable mistake that will be cashed out some years after but at the time the same people are collecting some money and same will be against it say about 10 years after. Can you risk to hire a 20000$ per hour lawyer who has this shitty experience of flipping the justice to prove this profitable mistake . You dont. so be in your pants and play only limited online poker that will only entertain you.
For me it is another entertainment industry and free plays are my best play. At least i loose $500 a year not more.
My suggestion: Control your gambling habbits instead of blaming these sites. This is the same shit as pinball machines or lucky seven machines so you are making them grow you should be punished. try only free rolls if you wanna play poker arent they fair enough.
or make your own site earn money survival for the fitest.
These games are so rigged its laughable…these vailed claims of fairplay,pokerstars and full tilt poker are run by the same people
I really feel as if poker stars are punishing me….
Last night, i had pocket kings in the hole, where as player b, had little slick. The flop came K K A, now i know a thing or two about odds, and my four of a kind Kings could only be beaten either by a miracle royal flush, or miracle quad aces. So, confident with my 96%+ chance of winning the hand, bet a small amount and got raised, so i reraised, and got reraised on top of that, the only thing i could do was call all in. So, as a selfish poker player, wanting all the chips for myself, i called.
Showdown!
As soon as the cards were face up, the first thing player B said was “NH”. Obviously he knew his poker odds, and the chances of him drawing runner runner was very slim. i think its under 1% chance. Anyway, it’s down to the final two cards, the turn…. an Ace, now as soon as the ace came down i said, don’t you f*****g dare! The river…. you guessed it, another Ace.
Now i know bad beats are a part of poker, but comon, there has to be a line…. and let me tell you, they crossed it, hell they didnt just cross it, they are so far over that line they are in a different time zone. I have never seen or suffered a bad beat like that in all my poker experience. The odds of that happenning are so bad i cant even count that high.
Now for my own opinion…. I believe online poker rooms arnt rigged as bad as people say, although i do agree that they are rigged to provide players with artificial luck to increase the rake and therefore increasing the total profits of the site.
After this bad beat, it has shook me up a bit…i don’t suffer from tilt, so that is not a problem, its just i feel as if i cant trust an online poker site anymore, and i will now only play for play chips online, and keep my money for the casino tournaments where i can see if the cards are being shuffled.
So my advice to anyone who feels they are being cheated on online poker is to leave the site, cash out any remaining funds and only play for fun
Happy gambling
I agree 100% OLI.
I have read all the above, and my theory is that they could very well be fixed as a friend of mine commented that you always win when you start playing on these sites but after a few days your luck changes and inevitebly lose.
My opinion is this is to get you hooked to start with and that you can win then no matter what you do you will lose. It also might entice some gamblers into trying their hand at some of the casino games that are available on these sites which you also win to start with and inevitebly lose
Its the same old merrygoround with me, you make a deposit, you win for 3 to 6 days but come the next week if you still want to play you will have make a deposit.
The poker is still however not bad value entertaiment, because the time i have spent online I would probably have lost a lot more in any other gambling activities and the freerolls can keep you entertained if you are broke.
Some sites appear worse than others. Avoid online Casino games at all costs - Have burnt myfingers several times playing Blackjack - they let you win for an hour, but then never to get never again (constant dealer badbeats). Online poker is definitely safer if you can control your deposits and stakes and notget addicted. My aim is to play sattellites into live tournaments, which is where the real randomn card deals occur.
well, i’ve read about everyone’s comments on online poker “rigging”….Trueth of the matter is, yes it could be setup/rigged, where u hold the nuts of all nuts by the turn and somehow those quads, or that bigger boat, or whatever just happens to come, and then the rig factor/conspricay theories….Can anyone prove, that it is/isn’t, yes there are bad beats, there action flops, but can u prove without a doubt that these online poker rooms are setting up cards and flops, for an extra penny….
I really do understand everyone’s point/concern, because no one likes to, throw hard earned money away, but that’s what some ppl do, they play because they want to win, and refuse to let a ugly 92 suited go, or a6 off, for the simple fact it’s there money, and there just stupid and happen to luck out, Bottom line online is online, in real life would half of the fish online really play the way they play, hell no, cuz they would be broke… gl 2 u all if u keep putting ur money in online poker…
I love being beat by the 1 or 2 outers, everytime, not 2 or 3 times a day, 5 or 6, it’s something to do with the algorythms in the cards that by the river, as many hands have to be completed, i don’t know if that makes sense and it’s very brief, but a friend told me he has a friend who works for some poker site, and no it’s not a friend of a friend lie story, anyway i’m goin to bed,
and not playing online anymore
I cashed out $4800 from pokerstars, i don’t know what part them giving me that has in their grand scheme of things, but when you finally amass the skills to win a large tourney, no longer will you think a site is rigged, trust me.
I’d like to tell you my story.
I’ve been playing casino (bricks and mortar) poker for a number of years now. After months of getting creamed and losing all of my money, i wised up and gradually became a better player to the point where, more often than not, i come home a winner. I’m not saying that i’m the next Johnny Chan but i know i’m a pretty good player.
About 6 months ago, I decided to give online poker a try so I did a little research and signed up with Party Poker. Now, the two things that realy hit me were a. how bad the low limit players were and b. how juicy my pocket cards were. Surely, for any poker enthusiast, this has got to be heaven. After about 2 hours of playing, my $40 had grown to nearly $200 and this, on the 0.50/$1.
Then it happened.
Or rather it didn’t.
For the next week or so I barely got a playable hand. When I did, i’d miss the flop big time. I’ve had dry runs before so at first i wasn’t too alarmed. However, come the end of the week, I had to reload. I figured that I should deposit a bit more and so I put a couple of hundred more on. Normal service resumed. The cards were back and before long, I’d made up my deficit and then some.
Then it happened again.
Another extended dry spell which this time took about a month until I had to reload again.
After about the sixth time, I began to see and expect the same pattern. I wasn’t disappointed. Sensing something dodgy, I decided to move to another site.
Enter Pacific Poker.
Now this one was really beautiful. Within a month, I was sitting on a small fortune. I took down just about every SnG I played and totally ripped apart the cash games. Occassionally, some twit would suck out on me with a real turd of a hand, but hey, there’s no excuse for stupidity. Overall, I could handle the bad beats because they barely dented my ever growing bankroll. I think the high water mark for me was looking on shark scope one day and seeing a sharks fin next to my name. And then it all fell down.
I suffered the most horrendous run of unbelieveable bad beats you could imagine. Many times I’d flop the absolute nuts and have some twit push all in. I’m not about to lay the nuts down so I call. Every time this happened, they’d get runner runner to beat me. It was so ridiculously rigged. During this time, I must have been dealt pocket aces about a hundred times and managed to get all the money in pre flop about 50% of the time. How many times did my aces stand up? Thats right, none. Every time my aces got cracked. In the space of about a month, I lost my entire bankroll of $30,000 and so decided to look for somewhere else.
Incidentally, I still go back there occasionally for a laugh. It’s now literally impossible for me to win a hand but I get a bit of a laugh from seeing the different ways they screw me. Get this. One hand I actually won on a small pair yet they gave my opponent the money on a high card. We were both astounded.
Anyway, so I move on to Poker Stars. Again, I start off like an express train though I must admit that on more than one occasion I got lucky. That started the alarm bells ringing. I knew it was time to move on again when in successive hands, I was dealt AA, AA, KK, AA. On each occasion I managed to get all the money in the middle pre flop and each time I got beat.
On to Full Tilt. Here I’m quite happy. There’s generally a good standard of player and your good hands normally stand up. But now i’m pretty cynical. Yes, I had bad beats but not more than I’d consider REAL. This is important. I gradually build up my bankroll in SnG’s and ring games and after a couple of cash ins on low limit MTT’s I find that I keep getting undone by the same hand. Just coincidence I tell myself. You must realise that now I’ve become a very tight player and I never commit my chips to the pot without knowing I’ve got the best hand. I’ve long since realised that internet players aren’t very good at laying their hands down so I always make sure I only get my money in when i’ve got the best of it.
I’m now at the point where I have to start making money. So here I am, sitting at a ring game with my entire bank roll. Not a good move but now i’m getting a bit desperate. In the first hour, I’ve played 4 hands. The rest have been folded. As yet, I’ve not won a hand. I’ve completely missed the flop and then faced a raise. I’ve folded each time. In the next hour I’ve received the biggest glut of cards i’ve ever had and every time i’ve hit a monster hand. Unfortunately, each time, one of my opponents has hit a bigger monster. My set of sevens was second to a set of queens, my nut straight was rivered by a flush, my eights full of kings met with quads, my 2 pair AK was crushed by an eight high straight, so on and so forth.
I know what you r thinking, right? Wrong. Let me repeat. I am a tight player. I play a small range and don’t bet until I hit my hand. I’m not loose, in fact after all of the bad beats i’ve had, I’m now perhaps too careful. The only thing I know is that prior to playing online poker, I was a pretty good player. Now, I don’t think I could tell you what a winning hand looked like if it jumped up and bit me on the arse.
At one point I was doing so well and making so much that I quit my job. Now i’m broke. Online poker has done this. Personally, I feel (and with good reason) that all poker sites are rigged. The better you are, the more they screw you over.
I’m never playing online again. If you do ever see me playing online again take this tip. Call me all in with nothing. You’ll win every time.
Of course its rigged. Its not upto to us the players to prove its rigged but the sites to prove they are fair, but they wont do this why? If they have nothing to hide allow independent auditors in to evaluate their algorithm, rng and whole operation. Then it will be fair. Online poker is the only business in the whole world where the ownus is on the customer to prove its unfair!
who are all these dicks saying that unline poker isnt fixed?? and you know this how?? sites saying prove it? i think not!if you if you accuse it,you wont even get a reply or just some corporate bullshit written by lawyers,ill give you an example of a fundamental flaw in 888.com i was big blind,small blind was present but then a gap to the button in a tournament,i was struggling,luckily everyone folded and i was one step closer to a seat for the big tourney,then when i think ill be small blind a newbie comes to my table and fills the gap,imagine how shocked i am when i discover theres no dead button and im big blind again,a big stack goes all in and even if i had 6 aces im still not able to call,luckily i scrape thru and get the seat…..i email 888.com and express my views at this having nearly killed my tourney,there response shocked me…….they say they are aware of the problem but couldnt give me a timescale for it to be fixed,however altho it was a problem for me this time it could be to my advantage if it had happened to some one else……..i have two problems with this,first i want to beat my opponents fairly,second this website has been running since 1997,so am i to believe this has not been reported before or that in that time they still havent found a soulution?? oh and if you doubt the email i can forward you a copy,oh and by the way im a winning internet gamer as i put it,but i choose not to play.the people who think its fair??……keep depositing lol
id also like to reply to d murray comment 11 on winning hands for the first few days,i played on the above site for three days,three days in that time iwas dealt not one but two royal flushes,two!! am i that lucky??i play live games every week iv never seen a royal in fact most of my friends ages from 18-60+ have never and i get two LOL
i played on stars 4 years ago and lost 350 big bets went to party and won 50k at 10/20 went back to stars after party closed in usa and lost 500 more big bets who has ever heard of an 850 big bet losing streak by a successfull poker player, absurd
It ia all bogus. The most rediculous shit on the planet. I win when I play live but I always loose to amazing river comebacks online. FULL TILT SUCKS ASS!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
all sites such as party poker, poker stars, full tilt and others, are cheating openly and e are now building a website proving these to include the absolute poker scandal which is not as bad as pokerstars and party poker.
these poker companies employ people as table managers and online security.
how these guys getts paid? they enter the high stak tournaments and win these rigged games.
10 percent isnt enough for these large sarks called on line poker rooms.
Jst think,
3 thousand players/victims per tourney at $5 usdllrs each = 15$ usdollars total pot.
plus the 10% for the poker company =$1500 us golars net profit for the company.
But out of the $150000 pot ten thousand dollars ill be split to the first 15 winners.
Now why these onlinepoker owners can settlle for ONLY $1500 when they can steal another ten grand?
10 grand from one tourney only x 20 tourneys = TWO HUNDREND THOUSAND DOLLARS IN ONE DAY ONLY
Now these we call large profits.
Who you think can control them??
NO ONE.
So dont ask about prooves for cheating.
They can cheat more than one way in any table, any tourney anyway.
The best hing to do is no to go in any online poker unless someone built a site with freerolls only and all winners can be publisised
Mean time i let you in to a secret.
If you lost money to these poker companies you can claim your money back from your credit card.
Banks are aware that online poker is a major fraud and you only have to fill a form asking for all your money back because the company has taken the money by deception.
UNFAIR gaming it is a deception.
so claim your loosing money back
i see alot of you think poker websites are rigged. I’m not saying they are and i’m not saying there aren’t as i can’t prove it one way or the other.
But ask yourselves this… how is it that there are players out there that have made over $1 million playing online poker if the game is rigged?
If you play live games are you saying you’ve never had these bad beats? Yes i know you get them nearly every hand when playing online bla bla bla. If you think your such a great player but still losing online and you think it’s fixed why are you still playing online poker? It’s the height of stupidity if you’re sure these webistes are rigged yet still you play on them. Anyone that does this must be completely retarded. Why don’t you just chuck your money down a drain instead.
How would one prove that the poker rooms are using several “bot players” playing for the house in all major tournaments?
“If you play live games are you saying you’ve never had these bad beats? Yes i know you get them nearly every hand when playing online bla bla bla. If you think your such a great player but still losing online and you think it’s fixed why are you still playing online poker? It’s the height of stupidity if you’re sure these webistes are rigged yet still you play on them. Anyone that does this must be completely retarded. Why don’t you just chuck your money down a drain instead.”
Super? What? It’s called a gambling addiction.
Online poker is NOT rigged. Without a doubt, anyone telling you so has an agenda so do not listen to them. I am so sick of people telling me it’s rig to keep the cash flowing and fishes from exiting the system. Many even dare to say that some can see your HOLE cards which we all know is impossible. I, POTRIPPER (like the entire industry) can confirm this also because I’ve made hundreds of thousands if not millions from online poker personally. Yessiree, my success comes from talent like the ability to call ALL-INs raises with 10 high! So the next time you hear stories of “shrills”, “doomswitches”, and “railbirds with impossibly low ID#” just laugh it off and know that your money is safe.
Lol, i’ve heard the same thing over and over and over again.
Infact i made a website with the name as to be totally ironic. Makes for good jokes though huh?
The opening letter on this page is a joke. I came into this site a few weeks ago and read this letter. I think this guy must think all people are jerks and have no brains. If he thinks posting a letter as above will change my mind about his site then he is the jerk
The following is a hand played about ten minutes ago on his site. I had folded pocket 4s, knowing if I came into the hand I would get my butt kicked.
Note this was a pre flop ALL IN
Alessio831: shows [Ks Ad] (two pair, Nines and Fives)
bobazumii: shows [8s 9d] (a full house, Nines full of Fives)
bobazumii collected 360 from side pot
kalinsc1: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
bobazumii collected 3740 from main pot
tdall is connected
Note in the above hand the weakest hand wins. This happens to often . In A tourney I played before this one. I was on the SB With k9 os, the BB was the table short stack, and holding pocket aces. All the other plays folded to me. My wife was watching me play and I had told her I will take this player out if he calls my all in. I pushed he called, The flop came 9kk. Cracking his Aces.
I can give proof to the fact these sites are not ramdom as they claim. I invite you to sit with me as I play there program, ( NOT POKER ) and call what will happen base on who is in the hand and the chip stack each player has.
For you players having a problem with winnig here is a tip. This is in tourney play only.
1 stay away from chip leads when they make a rise and you are holding a calling hand. You will loose this play most of the time.
2 The same holds true if the table short stack pushes all in and you are holding a calling hand. You will also loose in this play often.
You can call these players but only when the time is right.
3 play tight, do NOT play any QJ - J-10 A9 THUR A2, PLAY A10 HOWEVER DO NOT RISE WAIT TO SEE IF A PL
taken about 30-35 cashouts… only ever making one deposit of $30 on 888.com . only like 80-$200 a peice though, each cashout. all was fine.. seemed normal . some bad weeks here and there, acceptable… thats poker. . playing either loose agressive or tight agressive, depending on the table , and how well i think im playing ( prefer to play semi-loose agressive if im on my A game.. ) but then, i took out 2 cashouts of $1000 a peice. 4 months ago.
now, even if i play super tight agressive (888.com by the way) .. in 4 months period , when i have put my money all in on the flop, or turn, 1v1… and looking at the cards, knowing im between 85-96% favourite… i have lost no less than 8/10 of these situations. and i play at least 5 hours a day. 90-95% favourite nearly all the time, if my money goes in .. i have lost 8 out of every 10 times.. and this is no lie. i can take a bad beat or 2, or aweek or 3, or whatever. but this, for 4 months? runner runner and 2 outers cracking my 95% favourite hand almost everytime when the money gets shuved in?
i just wish i could show you my hand history. also in the 4 months, there is no such thing as a safe card.. i raise what i know is the best hand, and i know probably by a good percent … the turn, and river, create all teh possible draws that my opponent could be on, or cards to split it with him … if its 4 of the same suit or i raise with a set and the board ends up 6789 with 3/4 same suit on it. i literally call the turn and river as i bet, however big i bet.. to protect my hand. now, if by some miracle they havent hit.. which of course they do every single time… then, im not getting paid as its a complete scare flop for my opponent anyway. so every hand that i do win becomes unprofitable if i bet it .. and if i go all in, and they do call , if i have 90-95% favourite odds, like i say.. i really do lose now , 8/10 times.. for 4 months solid.
all this, since taking out 2 larger than usual cashouts……
*shrugs* .
i have to resort to finding complete and utter donks..
to be honest, on 888, i hate flopping top set, even on an apparant nice looking board ( no scare cards ) because if i raise and get re raised big, of course im pushing all in if i think the donk will call. he calls and , as its such a favourite… i lose with it most the time.
in 4 months, regardless of how played.. flopping a set with A kicker, if all in, now often gets busted by the caller with set who hits lower kicker on turn, if by some MIRACLE it does not.. then it just gives him a split. i have not won when flopping a straight in 4 months….. if i can get the money all in.. tehy either hit runner runner or again… it turns and rivers a splitting straight.
if i flop a flush, nut flush or whatever… again, regardless of how played… i cannot win with that hand either…
been done by runner runner no less than 10 times in the last 2 days…
not to mention the bitter one today, holding k j , on a kk q board.. against a calling station.. who raises. i call with position… next card, q . i already put him on a q, but then he bets, so i re raise.. he re re raises, being a calling station, now i was beyond doubt he had a q… i figure with position i can call this and he will bet again and i can then put him all in. or just go all in… no matter what he was putting his money in ….
of course… river came q … . not the first time that’s happened to me ill admit.. but that, with the other bad beats ( and i mean, serious bad beats) in 8/10 big pots for 4 months, when im honest to god, 90-95% favourite. often 95% … 20/1 ….
i only been playing 4 years, but for everyday… but had more bad beats in 4 months, since these irreguler larger cashouts… than ive had in 4 years.. and that again, is no lie.
been playing for money stakes only a year, on the 25c nl stakes, turning the 1 $30 deposit into nearly 6k … but i really feel like it should be so so so much more…..
since taking out that 2k, after making 30 small cashouts… i dont think ive made more than $750 .. and thats often because there is always one complete donk who dont even know what hand he is holding… to pay you off on the river when uve just checked down or placed tiny bets in with the the nuts all the way….
i know nearly everyone who writes here, is gonna say its rigged… else why would you of clicked into google ” cash out curse ” in the first place
but damn, im convinced…….
i really just wish i could show anyone here the past 4 months of my hand history. you would refuse to believe it. or even just the past 3 days….
In my post above, I tell you to stay away from playing against table short stacks when they push all in. EVEN WHEN YOU ARE STRONG.
The following hand was played in a tourney just a few min. ago. I folded JJ TO THE ALL IN OF THE TABLE SHORT STACK. I FOLDED BECAUSE I KNEW HE WOULD HIT A WINNING HAND NO MATTER WHAT TWO CARDS HE WAS HOLDING. A preflop all in with crap turns into gold. LMAO hits a st8 on the 3 flop cards.
Dealt to ——-me [Jh Js]
rutti888: calls 200
hoagie407: raises 612 to 812 and is all-in
——-me: folds
gstaranto: folds
tombeacon: folds
Tartan Ace: folds
iPoker$tar: folds
Dadadj: folds
rutti888: calls 612
*** FLOP *** [8c 6s 5d]
*** TURN *** [8c 6s 5d] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [8c 6s 5d Ad] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rutti888: shows [Td Kc] (high card Ace)
hoagie407: shows [9d 7c] (a straight, Five to Nine)
hoagie407 collected 1924 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1924 | Rake 0
Board [8c 6s 5d Ad 9c]
Seat 1: Dadadj (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: rutti888 showed [Td Kc] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: hoagie407 showed [9d 7c] and won (1924) with a straight, Five to Nine
This is the program reading and deliving the needed cards to this player.
—————
I ALSO tell you in my above post DO NOT PLAY THE CHIP LEADER AT YOUR TABLE HERE IS WHY . Note I was on th BB with this hand. Had I not been I always would fold pocket 22
Seat 8: TaDealt to —–ME [2d 2c]
tombeacon: folds
Dadadj: calls 400
hoagie407: calls 200
pittbulljim: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s Kd 3s]
hoagie407: bets 400
pittbulljim: ——ME 400 to 800
Dadadj: raises 11395 to 12195 and is all-in
hoagie407: folds
pittbulljim: calls 2585 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2s Kd 3s] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [2s Kd 3s 5s] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
—–ME: shows [2d 2c] (three of a kind, Deuces)
Dadadj: shows [Kh Kc] (three of a kind, Kings)
Dadadj collected 8470 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
I busted out on this hand. Taking 4th in prize money. I have yet to win a hand played against the chip leader when I am all in with him. You all know even if you were just hoping to get lucky and suck out just once, it most likly would happen sooner or later. Now please tell me why I just don’t have any luck playing chip leaders at me tables
When you play on poker stars watch the stacks, Look to see where the pots are going and to whom. Remember them and see if you see the same thing I am seeing. Look for the program traps. Spot them and try to avoid them.
There are many other things you need to pick up as to program,
In short playing great poker on line at any of these sites is not good enough.
YOU NEED TO LEARN THE PROGRAM. And avoid its BS Traps. If you can.
Good luck!
Dealt to —ME [Ac 6c]
pokerpitchen: calls 20
hoagie407: calls 20
Ejohnson88: calls 20
preccat2005: calls 20
—ME: calls 20
libs44: folds
suffhannoi: calls 20
nougat1980: calls 10
file1010: raises 180 to 200 and is all-in
pokerpitchen: calls 180
hoagie407: calls 180
Ejohnson88: folds
preccat2005: calls 180
—ME: folds
suffhannoi: calls 180
nougat1980: folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 7d Qh]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: bets 40
preccat2005: folds
suffhannoi: calls 40
pokerpitchen: calls 40
*** TURN *** [5h 7d Qh] [4c]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: bets 40
suffhannoi: calls 40
pokerpitchen: calls 40
*** RIVER *** [5h 7d Qh 4c] [6h]
pokerpitchen: checks
hoagie407: checks
suffhannoi: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokerpitchen: shows [Kc Kd] (a pair of Kings)
hoagie407: mucks hand
suffhannoi: mucks hand
pokerpitchen collected 240 from side pot
file1010: shows [3h Jh] (a flush, Queen high)
file1010 collected 1060 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
How about this one with 5 players in the hand. Table short stack pushes and wins with a flush. I folded A6 SUITED. Still think they are ramdom?
Summing this up
I have posted above just a few hands of the many I could have posted. I have been on both ends of these hands. I won many pushes as the table short stack even when I had the worst of it going in.
I have called some of these pushes losing the hand with the best going in.
I made 3 calls with pocket aces only to have them crushed by a st8 or flush or two pair. I have also folded pocket aces, kings, queens, jacks, ak, to these pushs and was glad I did. In some of the hands as many as 80% of them, I got to see the outcome. I would have helped to chipped these players up.
Now lets not forget the table chip leaders who often sucks out when you have him beat. But if he has you beat going in, you will not suck out and take the hand from him.
Funny thing just happened as I am typing this post, I am also playing a tourney. I am the table short stack look what happens
Dealt to pittbulljim [Th Jc]
xantilius: raises 1350 to 1450 and is all-in
iownyou66: folds
smokyxxx: folds
gpasi420: folds
lnascarfa06: folds
snake2077: folds
pittbulljim: calls 990 and is all-in
MaVEricK9966: folds
Popcorn 222: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js Td 3c]
*** TURN *** [Js Td 3c] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [Js Td 3c 7d] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xantilius: shows [Kc Ah] (high card Ace)
pittbulljim: shows [Th Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
pittbulljim collected 2130 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2130 | Rake 0
Board [Js Td 3c 7d 5d]
Seat 1: MaVEricK9966 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Popcorn 222 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: xantilius showed [Kc Ah] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 4: iownyou66 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 5: smokyxxx folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 6: gpasi420 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 7: lnascarfa06 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 8: snake2077 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
Seat 9: pittbulljim (button) showed [Th Jc] and won (2130) with two pair, Jacks and Tens
LMAO- Just got busted out by the chip leader
Dealt to pittbulljim [Td Ts]pittbulljim: raises 1130 to 1380 and is all-inpuzruz: folds KingFisha420: folds NETOAAAA: folds gaviotta: folds muedi: folds * Ecci 68 *: folds costello99: folds box72: calls 1130*** FLOP *** [5h 8c 7s]*** TURN *** [5h 8c 7s] [Jc]*** RIVER *** [5h 8c 7s Jc] [7h]*** SHOW DOWN ***box72: shows [8s Jh] (two pair, Jacks and Eights)pittbulljim: shows [Td Ts] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)box72 collected 3110 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 3110 | Rake 0 Board [5h 8c 7s Jc 7h]Seat 1: NETOAAAA folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 2: gaviotta folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 3: muedi folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 4: * Ecci 68 * (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 5: costello99 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 6: box72 (big blind) showed [8s Jh] and won (3110) with two pair, Jacks and EightsSeat 7: pittbulljim showed [Td Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and SevensSeat 8: puzruz folded before Flop (didn’t bet)Seat 9: KingFisha420 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
WELL NOW HOW ABOUT THAT.
HE IS ON THE BB WITH CRAP AND TURNS IT INTO GOLD. ONCE HE MADE THE CALL I KNEW I WOULD GET BUSTED. DO YOU STILL THINK THIS IS RAMDOM?
Ok lets sum this up.
Is online poker RIGGED? In my eyes YES, How about yours. Have my posts help you to see the light? i hope so.
Can you win playing online Yes, But you will only win what the program will let you win. AND no more than that.
Are the cards that being DEALT all cards dealt RAMDOM? Not in my eyes. How about yours?
Do short stacks and chip leaders have an advanage? IN MY EYES YES. HOW ABOUT YOURS
Will I make any more deposits? NO. How about You?
metfair poker is rigged
i have been playing on there for 4 years and have the folllowing stats
hole cards above an 8 = 9%
hole cards below an 8 = 63%
deuces that come in hole cards 35%
aces that come in hole cards 3%
hands wom when all in in the lead 14%
hands won when all in not in lead 2%
this can be proved by my hand history
if u wish to see it
soory i meant bet”FAIR”
they are cheating
they register in Malta
no real laws to scrutinise them
not liable to any laws in this country
have seeded players
and decisions after the call
only response you get from them is “it is random”
well no way is it random
I have played poker live for over 20 years,i have played on most of the sites.I kept a very open mind for along time as to whether or not the rumours of a rigged game were true,infact i strongly leaned towards them not being rigged.Since that time a few years ago and having played many hours online(mostly on pokerstars)i have come to the conclusion that they are indeed rigged.I am so convinced of this that nothing could change my mind.I dont care how many employees of pokerstars come forward saying it is not ,by the way did you know that 25% of pokerstars is owned by the employees giving them an even stronger motivation to testify as to the fairness of the game.Hand histories mean NOTHING!!!.Even if the companies that tested the software were legitimate this means NOTHING. Nobody is saying that every 10th card will be an ace or some kind of pattern like that,ofcourse they could not predict what card is coming next, as it can be determined as needed by the software.These companies are indeed motivated by greed,they are unregulated,based in a banana republic and answer to nobody.If you play online keep the sites guessing by not giving all of your buisness to one site,make them want to keep you happy,or everyone boycott them for a month and see what happens…good luck!(does not apply to online poker,luck not involved).
Man i saw this dude and he went all in ok you following me and he had 22 and he gets called by ak jq 9 10 7 8 and 34 and he loses to two pair aces and kings well the pair of deuces was the best hand and it lost man this is so rigged i dont see how he lost i mean he had a pair of deuces
Okay I think some poker rooms are rigged (Full Tilt) because I had pocket Qs and I get called by two players and one had pockets 7s and the other had 8-7 and on the river of all cards to come out is a 7?! What are the odds of that really? Another time I had A-10 and flopped the nuts (straight Ace high) and the flop was rainbow I go all in and get called the player had Q-8 of diamonds and he caught runner runner for a flush! are you kidding me? Come on? can anyone explain it to me?
Are people nuts? ALL, yes all the poker sites are rigged. Rigged for them (the owners) not exactly. They are rigged to keep you constantly putting money in. Plain and simple! They make money either way!!! Full Tilt is the biggest joke and they should be ashamed for their crap software and miracle hands seen. As a matter of fact, Full tilt should be sued, prosecuted for fraud, and their owners shot! AP is right behind them. Heck, they have an investigation into millions stole by there OWN people. Blowdog is another joke of a site and just as many bad beats there. Play live poker.
everyone seems to miss one simple point, how on earth can you program a computer to do something randon, there is no equation to it, and the equation used to program all the poker sites is badly off the mark, if you can give me the equation for random, please do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s rigged. Why wouldn’t they rig it?
And yeah, to all the idiots who say “why play if it’s rigged?” it’s because people are addicted to gambling! Duh.
im not going to post a hand history or quote 1 hand as evidence that pokers fixed but im going to ask if any of the following ring true.
winning for the first few days / weeks of joining a site and then losing it all and more???
knowing that you going to have a bad session after your first bad beat is followed by bad beat after bad beat usually to the one card in the deck that improves your hand AND your opponents hand ??? (e.g. K of spades giving you a straight but your opponent a flush)
knowing when you will have a good session within 5 minutes when you win a few hands which then just carries on and on.
I believed that poker wasnt fixed but does any one else think that their loses AND wins follow a pattern and the quality of your session is decided as soon as you sit down ???
PS I made a bundle on fulltilt when i first opened the account while waiting 10 months for a free gift to arrive. as soon as it arrived the CONSISTENT bad beat started
which site do people think is the most rigged (out of the big ones)
stars, party or full tilt ???
my vote is for full tilt (you sit down at another site and it just “feels” different. the winning hands are smaller, your cards are worse (which is a good thing). ive lost the last 5 times with jacks on Fulltilt